[sand shark]

owning and operating motorsports shop has always been tough and low profit margins. now a days it is even worst. two big factors are hurting the shops. first virtually all aftermarkets parts can be purchased cheaper (and quickly most of the time) on-line. it cuts out the shop and a profit center. secondly the economy has been growing and employees' pay/salary has been going up every where. where do you not see a hiring signs? it really hurts the profit margin and makes it hard to get and keep quality mechanics. off point a little, is a reason (I think big reason) can am has not grown nationally is because of lack of dealerships. I was in dry ridge ky (30 miles south of Cincinnati on i75) last week. the mc dealership had 60+ rzr on the lot (don't know how many inside) and 5 can ams and 4 or 5 unopened boxes. for brp to grow can am it will need more and more good dealerships.

Here in So. Cal there are an abundance of dealers for all brands. Some of the bigger shops carry all the brands.

 

[Dive Bar Casanova]

It's definitely not just in Cali!

What I'm finding with all the problems I've been through and dealing with dealers/business owners is most of them have outgrown themselves and have taken on too many different products which they are not capable of properly servicing, especially in a timely manner.

Profit margins are minimal where they have to turnover many vehicles to make any kind of profit. More units to service.

The service tech skill sets are limited, more as time goes, factory training is minimal, those who have the skill sets which are becoming very few are very difficult to find and demand $100k plus a year. Even as such they are not qualified to work on such a diversity in product the dealers carry.

How many $100k+ a year mechanics can you afford at your dealership?
Or find according to the business owners I've talked to.

Good takes.

 

[frosty2]

Is it just out here in So Cali?

I went to one dealer as the entire service dept quit. About 12 guys walked out as I walked in. Dealer was trying to recruit mechanics outta the customers on the showroom floor.

Service writers too. They had all quit and had only been there over a week to 10 days went that tale.
Come on,, that's nuts. You all in the Southwest know who that Can Am dealer was. I'm not teeing them up anymore, I'm done with them.

I dropped off our X3 with appointment at a different dealer and 2 weeks later, the work is still scheduled 2 more weeks out. I picked it up and took the X3 home instead.

The street was full of others that were picking up their X3's before service was done too. An entire club.
Bizzare scene. "With the big weekend coming up they'll never have the work finished by then" was their tale here.
We all had appointments with no work near being started. Mechanics were quitting and bad attitude when we dropped off the X3's.
Warranty approval, then order parts, no way we'd be ready for the Thanksgiving Holiday.

In that 2 weeks they also went through 2 service writers, they've been without a service manager several months.
WTF?

Yamaha dealer in town has a revolving door service dept too. All strangers back there.

You'd think with over $100 an hour service rates they could afford to keep people.

Is it low pay?

I have been in the auto repair industry for 43 years with 15 of those with Land Rover and Saab. Here's the problem ; most all shops have the "flat Rate " pay system where each job gives a certain amount of time to preform. That time multiplied by the labor rate is the price of the job. With the exception of electrical and drivability diagnosis. The smartest person in the shop (mostly) will get these jobs and is usually paid a salary and sometimes called the shop foreman or head tech. He is only paid a salary for retention purpose. Also a master tech for that brand is required for most : in conjunction with high C.S.I. (customer survey index) to get .... You got it... The lowest price for the product from the manufacture. And said dealers have product priority from quantity, and new models. So warranty labor times are about 1/2 of book time. So if a good tech can do a 2 hour job ( customer pay ) in 1.5 or a little better , on a consistent basis then he is making money. Not a lot. Remember the tools he has to buy ? So now you have the general manager bitching at the service department because they don't want to do warranty work( because they actually lose money) and the C.S.I. index is down and they have to pay more for the product and are low on the list to receive the models. So it's all back to sales and money for the store. By design ; most service departments at dealer ships are considered to just cover the the building overhead and do warranty. So if you have techs at work for 40 hours a week but Friday comes and they get paid for 20 hours of work.. then you can't expect them to stay there. Most good techs will open their own shop or go to an independent shop. The dealers want cheap techs because the service manager will also be on commision / profit pay system and the techs pay comes out of his overhead. So here is a general description of the techs at your car dealer or powersports dealer. They are either young guys just out of school maybe even a technical school ; that just graduated and they think they are making good money. Most are still living with their parents, have a big "tool truck" balance, and are learning on your new multi thousand or ten thousand product. And it's not pretty ! The customer thinks going to the dealer is a safe "choice". When in fact it is not. But what does a customer do on warranty ? I just bought a 2020 Maverick Sport RC. And a new Indian Roadmaster street bike. Do you think I would take them in for non warranty ? Hell no. And I will call them out over bad work. But I won't be rude because I was on that side of the fence before. But I also have pride in my work. Not much pride in the industry anymore . Why ? It all stems down from the manufacture and dollar .

 

[sandfreak]

Since 2010 I have bought two Quads, one OG Maverick, four X3's, and multiple trailers from Water World in Medford Oregon. Have always dealt with the same salesman and mechanic. They have stepped up multiple times to the point of even eating the repair bill if CanAm denied warranty. Glad I have a awesome dealer that I can trust.

 

[Totes9010]

I wouldn't play in the offroad world if I couldn't work on my own toys. Simple as that.

...

Sums it all up. Do it all yourself, and it's part of the hobby. Many people don't know this when they purchase these.

You can't rely on the canam dealership, not their fault they absolutely suck. it just doesn't make money or sense to have quality techs there. This forum is a huge resource and I'm thankful for it.
Great topic to discuss and read about. It's a common nightmare and the public just gets raped by subpar work that they wait for 4 plus weeks to get their rides back. But it's the public's fault for not having any mechanical ability too I guess. They just have to take the terrible dealership drama.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Macdad260]

A big part of the problem dealers have in trying to keep a strong service department is the seasonal nature of the business. During the winter no one brings in their motorcycle or watercraft for service. But as soon as there is a warm sunny day in the spring they are swamped with work. Then when the season ends, nothing. It is hard to keep good techs when the work is not steady and they are paid flat rate. Same reason there is a big turnover in the sales department. Powersports is a leisure time activity. Not a necessity like a car or truck that gets you to work every day and must be fixed ASAP.

 

[HPnMORE4J]

Sums it all up. Do it all yourself, and it's part of the hobby. Many people don't know this when they purchase these.

You can't rely on the canam dealership, not their fault they absolutely suck. it just doesn't make money or sense to have quality techs there. This forum is a huge resource and I'm thankful for it.
Great topic to discuss and read about. It's a common nightmare and the public just gets raped by subpar work that they wait for 4 plus weeks to get their rides back. But it's the public's fault for not having any mechanical ability too I guess. They just have to take the terrible dealership drama.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes it's in the best interest for the owner to have the ability to work on their machine, more the better. Some people don't have the time, tools, true mechanical ability, space etc. I could see if you're buying a rail or some off made sand car you should for the most part be on your own.

If a dealer offers full service on a major manufactured vehicle they should provide it properly supported by the manufacturer.
If the dealer doesn't have the ability we have some major problems with that.

I never seen such before with a new factory made machine that requires so much mechanical work out of the crate and maintenance where dealerships are so incapable.

Sure isn't built like my 2002 Honda TRX that I haven't touched since I purchased it …. lol

 

[Sooner]

I was a service manager at a R.V. dealer and the owner would higher guys out of R.V. schools that were retired military. What a waste, they were slow and had no common sense. Another guy was on some program and I couldn't fire him. He screwed up everything for a week. He asked what's next. I said let me check, in the mean time go clean the bathroom. He came back and said I'm done, I said I'm still looking. Why don't you take a chair and every time someone uses the bathroom clean it again till quitting time. The next morning he asked, and I said go sit by the bathroom. After lunch the owner asked if I fired the new guy because he was gone?!? Hahaha. NOPE, not me, I gave him plenty of work..... LOL!

I can't say I've met very many military retirees who lacked common sense (except maybe a few colonels I worked for). And, those who were slow had some form of a disability. I've spent my entire life working for the military (active, reserve, and civilian) and much of that time in management. Every organization has bad actors. But, I didn't send them to clean the latrine. Once I got them the appropriate training and learned their motivations, many of them turned out to be great employees. In my opinion, employee performance is a reflection of leadership.

 

[Phoenix7]

You'd think with over $100 an hour service rates they could afford to keep people.

Is it low pay?

It's probably all about GREED from the top down, and there is nothing left for the guys at the bottom.

I'm glad my favorite service writer is still there and seems to be a popular person at the dealership. I just talked to him the other day and I'm going to take my Maverick to him on Sunday to get my WORLDS BEST BELT installed! Jeez I'm more excited about this Worlds Best Belt than I was excited about getting a new Hot Wheels car when I was 10yo. Thanks to THIS WEBSITE for helping me discover it!!

WBB302 - Can Am Drive Belt - WORLD'S BEST BELT

GBoost Technology is the leader in Golf Cart Belts/ATV/UTV, Clutches, Clutch Kits, Brake Shoes, and Tools developed by Glenn Erlandson, the world's best specialist in clutching.

www.gboosttechnology.com

 

[DEZPERADO]

I can't say I've met very many military retirees who lacked common sense (except maybe a few colonels I worked for). And, those who were slow had some form of a disability. I've spent my entire life working for the military (active, reserve, and civilian) and much of that time in management. Every organization has bad actors. But, I didn't send them to clean the latrine. Once I got them the appropriate training and learned their motivations, many of them turned out to be great employees. In my opinion, employee performance is a reflection of leadership.

I said that wrong about retired military lack common sense but when you go in a production shop and at say $100HR shop rate, the customer is paying $1 per minute. Being on your toes and knowing what to do and when to do it is a necessity. I would always have to leave the office and go "check on the kids". My best worker was a young ex 4 year army guy. He started at minimum wage. I told him, "I can't give it to you all at once, but you should ask for a raise every 6 months". And he did.

As for the guy cleaning the bathroom, it was part of OUR shop duties split up and changed each week. I couldn't trust him without 100% supervision. Once, after a explanation to belt sand and level the seem of two pieces of 5/8 plywood, I came back to find a 8 inch groove on both pieces wafer and thin plywood. Just one example that had nothing to do with training or leadership, I truly believed he didn't want to do a quality job, even with instruction,s because he didn't care.

 

[MadMavMax]

I wouldn't play in the offroad world if I couldn't work on my own toys. Simple as that.

2018.5 X3 Max XRS // Grove Fabworks, Aftermarket Assassins, Dynojet, CT front end, CA Tech, UMP, HSP, Rugged, Sandcraft, blah blah...

I could work on mine and sometimes I do. But I choose to spend that time on what I make good money at and let my dealer (which does retain their folks) do what they do best.
It's money well spent and well made for me.

 

[MadMavMax]

owning and operating motorsports shop has always been tough and low profit margins. now a days it is even worst. two big factors are hurting the shops. first virtually all aftermarkets parts can be purchased cheaper (and quickly most of the time) on-line. it cuts out the shop and a profit center. secondly the economy has been growing and employees' pay/salary has been going up every where. where do you not see a hiring signs? it really hurts the profit margin and makes it hard to get and keep quality mechanics. off point a little, is a reason (I think big reason) can am has not grown nationally is because of lack of dealerships. I was in dry ridge ky (30 miles south of Cincinnati on i75) last week. the mc dealership had 60+ rzr on the lot (don't know how many inside) and 5 can ams and 4 or 5 unopened boxes. for brp to grow can am it will need more and more good dealerships.

I agree about the online sale of parts and accessories...but regardless, my local Okc dealer always has a full service shop and loads of work..At their shop rates, all involved are making money. I dropped by there yesterday to check on some tires. They were assembling about a dozen new bikes, half dozen new CanAm SxSides, and another 8-10 customer rides being worked on. Looks like money in the bank to me. Oh, and they recently doubled their building size and they're maxed out again.

 

[bigred1xxc]

I agree about the online sale of parts and accessories...but regardless, my local Okc dealer always has a full service shop and loads of work..At their shop rates, all involved are making money. I dropped by there yesterday to check on some tires. They were assembling about a dozen new bikes, half dozen new CanAm SxSides, and another 8-10 customer rides being worked on. Looks like money in the bank to me. Oh, and they recently doubled their building size and they're maxed out again.

good news. can am needs many more good dealers, everywhere.

 

[WowThisThingRips]

Correct, once they move from the beginner hourly wage and become certified technicians they are moved to flat rate. On flat rate they are paid for the hours they bill based off a 3rd party lookup book time instead of the actual hours it takes to complete the job. The tech can either make great money if they are good and quick or they can go backwards if they are slow and repairing comebacks. It's helpful in weeding out the ones who are there to milk the clock and collect a paycheck or if they want to actually come to work and help.

Flat rate causes these techs to cut corners in order to get the job done quickly. Years ago I took my big rig in to get a fuel line replaced. The guy didn't even remove the old line. He just zip-tied the new line to the old one and called it good. I think DuneFreak said it best. If I can't fix my own toys, I'm not going to be in that sandbox.

 

[DEZPERADO]

Flat rate causes these techs to cut corners in order to get the job done quickly. Years ago I took my big rig in to get a fuel line replaced. The guy didn't even remove the old line. He just zip-tied the new line to the old one and called it good. I think DuneFreak said it best. If I can't fix my own toys, I'm not going to be in that sandbox.

I worked in the auto repair trade many years ago and always worked on theirs as if it were mine. They were pushing for everyone to be ASE certified and they paid for the tests. I did all automotive except automatic transmissions as well as body and paint so I took all those tests. Then, what the hell, I never worked on a 18 wheeler or diesel motors but I took those tests too. Surprise, surprise, I passed all of them and became ASE Master Certified HD Trucks. Still haven't worked on them, and did I say I hate the smell!

 

[Schmeg]

I was a service manager at a R.V. dealer and the owner would higher guys out of R.V. schools that were retired military. What a waste, they were slow and had no common sense. Another guy was on some program and I couldn't fire him. He screwed up everything for a week. He asked what's next. I said let me check, in the mean time go clean the bathroom. He came back and said I'm done, I said I'm still looking. Why don't you take a chair and every time someone uses the bathroom clean it again till quitting time. The next morning he asked, and I said go sit by the bathroom. After lunch the owner asked if I fired the new guy because he was gone?!? Hahaha. NOPE, not me, I gave him plenty of work..... LOL!

You have plenty of retired military right here on the forum. Your post is colorful at best.

 

[WowThisThingRips]

I just refreshed my page and discovered there was a huge edit on the last post. I would like to add that none of us here are bashing one group or another as a whole. I'm a truck driver and, for the most part, truck drivers are a bunch of idiots. Do I get offended when someone talks trash about my profession or the group I belong to? Don't be so politically correct. Just take it for what it's worth. Serving your country is noble, indeed. Do they make the best powersports mechanics? Maybe not. Don't get offended so easily. We're definitely not talking about you.

 

[DEZPERADO]

You have plenty of retired military right here on the forum. Your post is colorful at best.

I'm retired, military. I worked as "Aircraft inertial and radar navigation systems repairman". Mostly C141's and C130's. Vietnam era.
How about you?

 

[EODAZ]

What I hear from this post and what I have personally experienced is the smaller mom and pop shops seem to treat and work with customers much better than the mega dealers.
I do all my own work unless it is a major warranty issue. However my son in law has a young family and no time to or experience to work on his machine. So I just turned to the forum and asked for recommendation in my local area and got several quick responses. He picked on and they took care of him right away.
Plenty of shops and small dealerships that will do the work right. Big shops like I RIDE YOU NOW ALL THE WAY TO THE BANK AND LEAVE YOU HANGING OUT TO DRY are just places to avoid if you do not like getting taken advantage of or put on their back burner until they have nothing else to do.
Everything is about money, if your not making it your out of business, but to have all your focus on money and nothing on your customers experience and servise needs is just bad business.
I made the mistake of buying my ride at one and from that unpleasant experience have sent 4 customers to a local shop that all got new can ams. Because of poor customer consideration that is four lost sales, four lost referral generators and no servise money.

 

[DEZPERADO]

Auto shops push added services. Especially frontend repairs and alignment. I would say "Your tires are crooked". They say WHAT!?! You're tires are wearing caused by bad ball joints, tie rod ends, alignment, etc. "Do you want your family riding in a car like this?"
There was always the "Shotgun mechanic". Kept replacing parts till it was fixed. Hard starting, caused by a bad starter, then a battery, only to find a bad battery cable! Yep, customer pays.