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Discussion Starter #1
The brown truck just dropped off my shocks! I got these to Don last week and he turned them around in a couple days.

Can't wait to try these bad boys out.....



Updates to follow!
 

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Discussion Starter #6
...and before I get my inbox full of more requests for the spring rates, they are not on the springs. Due to the fact that they are so light, they would not do you any good without the valving to match anyway.
 

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really curious why they didn't see the need for a dual or triple rate setup…..was there any discussion on that when you talked setup?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
really curious why they didn't see the need for a dual or triple rate setup…..was there any discussion on that when you talked setup?
Don and I did discuss that option and I did talk with Alex about his double rate as well. My own opinion and limited past experience is: How can you valve a standard emulsion shock for multiple spring rates? I tried it on my motorcycle with a progressive rate spring and it sucked! What spring rate would you valve it for? The one half compressed? Full stuff?

I'm not a racing suspension expert, but have been doing upscale chassis work to on road cars, trucks, and Jeeps for the past 20+ years and worked on my own motorcycle suspension......

Maybe someone can explain this "More springs is better theory" in a way I can wrap my head around? Maybe it will be obvious when I go for a ride?
 

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haha….I was hoping you could answer that question…..I know in theory that the smaller/weaker coil spring is supposed to soften the initial smaller bumps to make the ride plusher and then the larger/ firmer spring is for the larger bumps and jumps.…..That's the limit of my shock knowledge base :smile:
 

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Don and I did discuss that option and I did talk with Alex about his double rate as well. My own opinion and limited past experience is: How can you valve a standard emulsion shock for multiple spring rates? I tried it on my motorcycle with a progressive rate spring and it sucked! What spring rate would you valve it for? The one half compressed? Full stuff?
Multiple stages of dampening. It's a pain to get dialed in as it took me forever and a day to get it right but it's there.
 

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haha….I was hoping you could answer that question…..I know in theory that the smaller/weaker coil spring is supposed to soften the initial smaller bumps to make the ride plusher and then the larger/ firmer spring is for the larger bumps and jumps.…..That's the limit of my shock knowledge base :smile:
A softer rate is generally the way to go for a better ride.
 

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Maybe someone can explain this "More springs is better theory" in a way I can wrap my head around? Maybe it will be obvious when I go for a ride?
I don't know this theory. The only thing that gets better is body roll and big g outs.
 

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A softer rate is generally the way to go for a better ride.
Alex, is it common for these shocks to soften/loosen up after a few hundred miles? I have been using your recommended setting for the stock shocks since the beginning and I have noticed lately that the rears feel a lot softer (better) than they had when I first got it. The back really squats on take off now and doesn't buck nearly as much as before……I am sure there are tons of variables to consider between then and now but was just curious if what I am experiencing is normal for these shocks.
 

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Alex, is it common for these shocks to soften/loosen up after a few hundred miles? I have been using your recommended setting for the stock shocks since the beginning and I have noticed lately that the rears feel a lot softer (better) than they had when I first got it. The back really squats on take off now and doesn't buck nearly as much as before……I am sure there are tons of variables to consider between then and now but was just curious if what I am experiencing is normal for these shocks.
Fatigue causes a loss of spring rate due to cheap springs.
 

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So Fox Podiums use cheap springs!
 

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I am surprised Fox allows them to do this…..It is Fox's reputation on the line not Can Am's…..
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
I'm no shock tuner as I just have never gone there. I am very picky about how a vehicle handles and reacts to road input.......over the years I have been irritated many times with off the shelf cookie cutter dampers and wished I could make changes to my liking. Just never opened up any shocks and tried yet.....Maybe it's time I tried! I know what I don't like, that's for sure.

Double/triple rates look all foo foo racey and stuff, but are they really needed for what I do? I don't race and just need something comfortable and controlled at 85% pace and keep us safe in those "Oh Shit" moments where you over drove a bit.....kinda like racing I guess?

Alex, I agree with you posted above..... in general, heavier springs equal rougher ride, resists body roll, and bottoming while softer springs in general give a better ride with more roll and bottoming......add the damping to the equation and it's a whole different ball game! You can't take the stiff out of too heavy spring rate with damping, but you CAN combat/control a soft spring rate!

I have always setup my Jeeps with the softer spring theory since payload was a distant priority. Then it had massive body roll and bottomed easy, so I added "radical" damping to make it safe enough to drive on the road....Rancho 9000's! What a POS shock those were and probably still are......never the less, it was what was available on my budget and skill level. This worked remarkably well till they faded which was pretty quick depending on driving style that day = how many beverages I had......I always wished I had something better to work with!Now that I have burned out on Jeeps, look what is available now!!!!! Just open you wallet.....

My thoughts are...why do it with stiff springs when it can be done with a softer spring and heavier valving? This isn't a 1974 F250.....BigFoot #1. We're working with light weight, coil sprung UTV's and the equipment is much better. This theory is what Don offered up to me....They way I would do it! If it turns out that this way sucks, I'll sent you my stuff and let you tell me "I told you so".... You can even charge me more for being a retard.:crazy:

I respect you both as tuners, so don't take any of this in a negative way. Don just does it the way I would do it, so I started there.

Now to first the ride......The test area I have to ride in behind the shop is nothing more than almost flat but slightly choppy about the size of a football field and has a single steep 4' tall x 14' long table top. First I did some dirt track'n. I noticed right away the body roll is virtually non existent and the scary nose dive I once had while charging the corners on the brakes almost putting on my lid is gone. Then I hit that table top a dozen or more times, progressively harder and faster every time... The Mav almost lawn darted us the first day I had it off that jump, so I have been kinda scared of it ever since. Now I can just hit it and land on the downhill slightly nose down! Hit it in the opposite direction and it drops off and settles down immediately instead of the bouncing side to side it did before.

Without making ANY adjustments other than what Don sent and recommended pre-load, It feels a little firmer than my wife will like....BUT I can soften it up a bit with the screws now.....maybe with a few more lbs it will be perfect!?? I want to ride it in a place I can hit repeatedly before I do anything though. Too Firm??!! How is that possible with these ultra soft springs?:crazy:
 

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Suspension is one of these things I could ramble my ideas on, for hours and hours, and hours. I'll just type out a few of my ideas, on the way I think with this stuff, rather than type a novel. Just to be clear, softer springs are not always the answer, it's just how I have come to finding the best over-all performance.

There are pros and cons to both softer springs AND stiffer springs, but let me just focus on these Mavericks, and how I feel about it. I have tuned so many different chassis vehicles, and often what works on one rig, sucks on another. Again, dual rate and stiffer coils can get the job done sure, but when I weigh the options and drawbacks, I usually tend to run MUCH softer single rate springs, AS LONG as I am working with a non-bypass shock, and less than 16" of wheel travel.

- Non bypass shocks, in my eye's mandates a single rate coil, for efficient rebound speed at near full droop. Getting the tires into holes and back on the ground, is a key feature of using all the travel, when you need it most. Multi-rate coil setups are usually very slow at the tail end of travel, and if you tune to that end-travel spring rate, the rebound is too fast near full bump/bottom out, giving the pogo.

- For what it's worth, the last 3.5" of wheel travel IS dual rate on the Mav, and a very efficient dual rate at that, using the OEM shaft mounted BASF dead-recoil foam jounce bumper. In that way of thinking, I am tuning with dual rate, but only because I get the compression/bottoming control, without the strong recoil. Win-win....

- When using soft coils you can get the soft ride, while still adding a crapload of compression damping. This damping is effective at controlling the chassis, from even near full droop, lifting the chassis through rough terrain, and setting you in the even softer spring rate. If using stiffer springs for bottoming resistance, you only get that force at half travel and farther in, making you blow through the first part of the travel way too fast, as the damping is lighter to get the ride quality decent.

- Soft coils are the only way to get slow speed flex(rock crawling type stuff), all the while keeping the chassis active while going slow. Stiffer coils take speed and force to create movement. At slow speeds, the soft coils can deflect, and the damping has time to get out of the way.

- More damping equals a more stable chassis. No more side-to-side crazy rocking back and forth, as the motions are controlled. You will get more TRUE body roll at times, but it is slow, dead feeling, and more controlled. Usually the most aggravating part of body roll is the quick jerky motions screwing with traction and your nerves. If the chassis slowly gets into position when you whip a turn or stomp the brakes, the traction is on-point, and the nerves have time to catch up.

I'll type more soon gotta' go.
 

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Can't wait to hear how you like it on the trails and out on the dunes. I told you it would be a night and day difference. :cool2:
 
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