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This thread has a ton of info. I read most of the 1040 posts and now have a much better understanding of how the parts of the suspension work and work together. There is a lot of information here on the XRS for a baseline set up. I have a 2020 X RS Turbo RR. With the changes for the 2020 RR suspension do you have a baseline set up as a start point? I ride almost 100% desert. No dunes. Thank you in advance!!
 
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Discussion Starter #1,042 (Edited)
Swaybar info,

All Stock x3rs cars a way under sprung in front. Using upgraded spring rates to hold the front end up and steady, allows the front sway to be removed so the car has real independent front suspension action. Over swaybar cars will have less body roll, but also tend to “push” more in the turns, and then be over “loose”. Car Will also loose stability and “forward drive” in rougher uneven terrains as compared to lesser swaybar car.
Smoother the terrain, or track, benefits the firm swaybar car. For instance, fast smooth sand dunes!! Loads of fun with the front and rear swaybar.
On the other hand, with Rough terrain, tossing the front swaybar and changing to firmer front spring rates is massive improvement. Valving to match the new spring rates is another huge jump.

Just to show this point. Anyone can do this test. It’s actually really fun and will get some laughs.

put out some cones in the sand or open Dez. Try with both Big and small arc Radiused turns, fast and slow speeds.
Have a car with front and rear stock and or aftermarket swaybars installed.
also Have a car with stock front removed.
start racing up to the cones and keep your cars in the radius turns as close to the cones as possible. Fast and slow, and even coming out of a whopped out course?

What car is easier and more consistent at staying in the tight line? What car swings wide and or mows over the cones more often? What car takes more work, and or is much easier to stay in the line and in better control.

Thier are many variables to the sway bar set up. If we are talking about a pro racer that has aftermarket sway bars on his racing car is a different story. That usually doesn’t go well for the recreational driver The only occasionally uses his car for local non-pro racing
It’s up to the driver to try all aspects and learn what they enjoy most and or works best for themselves. None is wrong or right, it’s personal preference.
 

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I have run my X3 with a front sway bar and without a front sway bar. With Ed's set up without the swaybar there is not much body roll with the front swaybar off. The X3 still stays pretty flat in corners. I have Ed's shock work on my X3.

Recently over President's day weekend I connected my front sway bar to see how it was in Glamis. It had been over a year since I drove with a front swaybar. With the front swaybar it handled well and high speed sweeping turns it was even more flat. Unfortunately, the sway bar links and the dunes don't like each other for my driving style. I snapped a front link which in turn tore my front CV boot.

I could immediately tell when the front sway bar was no longer connected. The ride was a little smoother and the transitions did not have the little snap. Cornering wise without the swaybar there was very little body roll. I can go either way the front swaybar. I like it both with and without the swaybar.

I have new and improved sway bar links from CT Race Worx. They now use a bolt with spacers instead of the stud style heim that is similar to the stock links. They should not break, but I am betting my stock front sway bar will end up snapping in half. LOL!

The X3 front sway bar and links in the dunes is just asking for carnage for anyone that drives mildly aggressive.
 

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Like Sand Shark, I had Ed do my setup without a front sway bar. However, I only ride in the SoCal desert, not the dunes. Ed’s full King setup works fantastic for me. (especially in the big whoops at Johnson Valley)
 
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Discussion Starter #1,045
I was reading a x3 thread about front end dive on jumps. And a few drivers felt that the fix was just to drive differently??!!

I thought WHAT???
So? Instead of making the car safer?? Let’s just drive around the issue?

People people!!!
I find it funny when I read these threads that some people feel the stock car suspension works one way and the only way to fix it is DRIVE differently? Some people just don’t know what they don’t know!!

FIX THE CAR!!

get some more ride hieght in the front, should be more than the rear where ever u end up.
The front is under spring stock! AND with almost everyone’s aftermarket spring kits!! This means the spring rates are not enough to push the car back up fast enough after compression. And over soft front means the car has extra body roll, dives when breaking, and uses the swaybar to help it, that in turn destroys your front independent suspension!!

turn the front rebound open 15 to 18 clicks or more. Move the crossovers down from 3/4 to 1 1/2 inches above the top of the slider after you figure your ride hieght and settle the car. This will engage the bottom spring much sooner to help get that front end upwards faster to level fly the car!

turn rear rebound full closed, open from 3 to 7 clicks. This will slow rear to again hep fly level and much more traction will be felt as the car unloads slower to keep power to the ground.
Rear crossover should be moved upwards to keep from using the bottom higher rate spring to soon! Higher rate Rear springs give unwanted push back, that is harder and faster, less traction, and difficulty in flight.

So many people are missing how much faster, smoother and confidence inspiring the x3 can be when set up closer to correct. It can be dangerous to drive a car aggressive then when relying on “driving around” it’s problems and weaknesses.
A car set up correctly is a safer car and can more easily survive if a driver makes a misjudgment and give back control sooner, more easily and more often.
 

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Discussion Starter #1,046
Was reading another suspension thread and I added to it,


Funny that these suspension pages go on and on, over and over and is mostly about personal “opinions”. It’s not about suspensions at all. It’s about what people will decide is good enough, or not good enough.
Or if it’s a good enough for me, than it should be Good enough for everyone else thinking?? lol.

Some people will work harder, or use more effort than they need to driving a stock set up, And are happy And content with that detail. Nothing wrong with that.
That is a personal driving decision. But maybe someone else does not want to work as hard to drive the car. They would rather have the car Instill much more confidence than what someone else’s deals with.
What it comes down to is, suspension wise, most of these car owners “don’t know what they dont know”. If someone hasn’t driven a multiple spectrum of suspension set ups ( from cars we are talking about ) from at least a handful of different tuners and compared them, then they really don’t have much experience at all to rate what’s better or worse, safer or faster, easier or harder, for comparison to each other or to stock.

How can something never driven or experienced be rated or compared or judged??
It cannot!
And this is from the beginner driver to the expert driver, from recreational to Racing.

Everyone can talk and talk about it, with personal opinions, but everyone drives differently with personal needs or wants from thier car. So till they get out and actually drive compare, and experience in real life, most, not all these options tend to be one sided, and or loyalty biased and don’t hold a lot of water as far as comparison go. It makes it a lot tougher for the readers to comb through the fodder to Figure out the facts from opinions.
It is totally a PERSONAL Decision. There is no right or wrong.
Get out and experience some cars!

My tune days are full of people that come out to compare!! With lots of cars, means lots of comparisons. The owner gets to decide what works for them best.
 

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I was reading a x3 thread about front end dive on jumps. And a few drivers felt that the fix was just to drive differently??!!

I thought WHAT???
So? Instead of making the car safer?? Let’s just drive around the issue?

People people!!!
I find it funny when I read these threads that some people feel the stock car suspension works one way and the only way to fix it is DRIVE differently? Some people just don’t know what they don’t know!!

FIX THE CAR!!

get some more ride hieght in the front, should be more than the rear where ever u end up.
The front is under spring stock! AND with almost everyone’s aftermarket spring kits!! This means the spring rates are not enough to push the car back up fast enough after compression. And over soft front means the car has extra body roll, dives when breaking, and uses the swaybar to help it, that in turn destroys your front independent suspension!!

turn the front rebound open 15 to 18 clicks or more. Move the crossovers down from 3/4 to 1 1/2 inches above the top of the slider after you figure your ride hieght and settle the car. This will engage the bottom spring much sooner to help get that front end upwards faster to level fly the car!

turn rear rebound full closed, open from 3 to 7 clicks. This will slow rear to again hep fly level and much more traction will be felt as the car unloads slower to keep power to the ground.
Rear crossover should be moved upwards to keep from using the bottom higher rate spring to soon! Higher rate Rear springs give unwanted push back, that is harder and faster, less traction, and difficulty in flight.

So many people are missing how much faster, smoother and confidence inspiring the x3 can be when set up closer to correct. It can be dangerous to drive a car aggressive then when relying on “driving around” it’s problems and weaknesses.
A car set up correctly is a safer car and can more easily survive if a driver makes a misjudgment and give back control sooner, more easily and more often.

Can you give same feed back for Trail Ride and some hill climbing for a 2020 Maverick x3 XDS with 32" tires?
Thanks,
Jeff
 
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