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Whalen speed ws200 tune

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I have a stock 2021 rs turbo r, thinking about putting the whalen 200 tune in it. Wondering if anybody has had any issues with or from it?
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The BRP actuator part number for the R and RR is the same. The difference has to be the turbo which are different. Whalen's E85 R crack pressure is listed as 12psi and the E85 RR crack pressure is 14psi.
Stock actuator won’t hold those kind of pressures for very long.
Did he find an actuator that worked with both fuels?
He is only on 91. It runs great. I was only concerned for not being able to get the crack pressure down to 10 without almost running out of threads. Car hauls A$$ btw
He is only on 91. It runs great. I was only concerned for not being able to get the crack pressure down to 10 without almost running out of threads. Car hauls A$$ btw
Gotcha. On the bench the TIAL is 11psi. At least the two I have are. That’s the lowest you can go regardless of arm length.
Oh look someone with a high hp street car that knows you can't trust pump gas, just like I said. (thank you for chiming in btw)

Maybe this isn't known amongst SxS people as much because they think 400 hp is a lot lol
HP/L is really what determines what "a lot" is, a 400hp X3 is like having a 2.0l make 888hp, or a 5.0l make, wait for it, 1776hp... 444hp per litre is INSANE.

There's a reason if you want a big horsepower X3 you have to use race gas, or E85, where as a 750hp Mustang runs happily on 93...
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HP/L is really what determines what "a lot" is, a 400hp X3 is like having a 2.0l make 888hp, or a 5.0l make, wait for it, 1776hp... 444hp per litre is INSANE.

There's a reason if you want a big horsepower X3 you have to use race gas, or E85, where as a 750hp Mustang runs happily on 93...
There are physical limitations (like piston speed) that make it hard to scale things up. It's not like Yamaha and Suzuki cracked the code on how to make HP/L with a street bike and everyone else is just too lazy to do the same. There are also considerations of torque, vehicle weight, and power under the curve (rather than peak HP) that would make a big difference trying to use that HP/L for something practical.

While that is a fun conversation, it's not really in line with what I first said in this thread, which is that "hotter" tunes reduce reliability, else Can Am would have loaded it to begin with. Also you still can't trust pump gas.
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There are physical limitations (like piston speed) that make it hard to scale things up. It's not like Yamaha and Suzuki cracked the code on how to make HP/L with a street bike and everyone else is just too lazy to do the same. There are also considerations of torque, vehicle weight, and power under the curve (rather than peak HP) that would make a big difference trying to use that HP/L for something practical.

While that is a fun conversation, it's not really in line with what I first said in this thread, which is that "hotter" tunes reduce reliability, else Can Am would have loaded it to begin with. Also you still can't trust pump gas.
I completely agree it doesn't scale perfectly AT ALL, but it does provide some perspective for sure.

However again it's not just the physical limits, people are relatively okay if you need to rebuild a side by side engine every ~5,000-8,000 miles, imagine the uproar if the latest CB1000RR needed a rebuild that often? Or say a 750hp GT500?

Because the 900cc engine is WAY more on the ragged edge.
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Reviving this rather than starting a new thread as info is relevant to discussion;

My car has been whalen tuned (21 turbo r- 91 octane tune) for about 5000km now, amazing tune, incredible power.

Anyway. Always ran good quality ethanol free Shell 91 (canada), car always run well and makes ~17.5lbs of boost, and 8100 RPM WOT.

Had a couple giant bottles of Torco octane booster lying around from the grand canyon trip so I tossed in enough to bring the octane from 91, to 95- Car made 18lbs of boost, and 50 more RPMs at WOT. Interesting. Tells me it was pulling power on 91. Still perfectly safe, but losing some power.

Ran a couple tanks of Chevron 94, boost holding firm @ 18lbs, then tried chevron 94+enough octane booster to bring it to 98 octane, car now makes 18.4lbs of boost and 8300rpm @ wot. Interesting.

I would be curious flashing to the 93 tune now if it makes more boost. I may try that. Lol.
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Relying on sensors to save you from inadequate octane is a dangerous strategy.
Bizarre it's worked so well for so many people for 10's of thousands of KM...

However Living life knowing virtually every person you interact with can't stand you is a dangerous strategy.
That's like saying the covid vaccine worked so well for so many people because most of them didn't die lol #genius
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stock tune requires 91 and a tuned up car needs more than 91
most have no clue the ecu is seeing knock and cutting power
just because the pump says 93 does not mean it is 93
having more octane than needed is just a safety buffer
there is no easy way to test fuel octane so its just easier to assume
your pump fuel is less than its says
buy the highest available and if that is not high enough add booster
93 tune requires 93, and dont count on pump junk to be 93
so shoot for 95 and hope that is high enough
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stock tune requires 91 and a tuned up car needs more than 91
most have no clue the ecu is seeing knock and cutting power
just because the pump says 93 does not mean it is 93
having more octane than needed is just a safety buffer
there is no easy way to test fuel octane so its just easier to assume
your pump fuel is less than its says
buy the highest available and if that is not high enough add booster
93 tune requires 93, and dont count on pump junk to be 93
so shoot for 95 and hope that is high enough
BINGO
Octane rating is the fuels resistance to detonation, the higher the octane number the MORE resistant the fuel.

Yes the computer can sense the detonation and pull timing and boost to keep the engine safe... But if the computer is pulling timing or boost then the engine is NOT making the full power the tune can produce...
Octane rating is the fuels resistance to detonation, the higher the octane number the MORE resistant the fuel.

Yes the computer can sense the detonation and pull timing and boost to keep the engine safe... But if the computer is pulling timing or boost then the engine is NOT making the full power the tune can produce...
Yup.

Also, an engine/ecu cannot preemptively sense octane and adjust the ignition timing accordingly. The engine has to see (hear) knock and then pull timing, this can cause damage.

Many calibrations (tunes) have rules built in where it won't constantly add timing and then take it away to keep checking to see if it's going to knock again. This is why sometimes when you fill your car with gas it can feel like it has more power, that's because it does. The ECU can see that you added fuel and it will reset the timing to the base location to verify if there's going to be knock again. This is common on automotive calibrations I'm not sure if the X3 has this but I'd be surprised if it didn't, especially because it's forced induction.

More octane when you don't need it won't help or hurt, too little octane when you need it can certainly hurt bad.

Knock or pinging is like wheel hop, by the time you realize it's happening the damage is done.
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I think a lot of people might not understand what detonation is... Detonation is spontaneous combustion occurring after the burn process has already begun, and is independent of the initial flame front. This uncontrolled event can originate from anywhere within the chamber and is usually caused by high cylinder temperatures and or pressure (extra boost) or lean conditions.

Detonation acts like a HAMMER hitting the piston... The worse or harder it detonates the harder it is on the piston (broken piston, ring lands, damaged crank bearings, rods etc...)

Again this is HAPPENING BEFORE the computer has time to adjust (pull timing or boost).. Little too much and you will be rebuilding the engine... if you are tuned dont SKIMP in the octane department!
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I think a lot of people might not understand what detonation is... Detonation is spontaneous combustion occurring after the burn process has already begun, and is independent of the initial flame front. This uncontrolled event can originate from anywhere within the chamber and is usually caused by high cylinder temperatures and or pressure or lean conditions.

Detonation acts like a HAMMER hitting the piston... The worse or harder it detonates the harder it is on the piston (broken piston, ring lands, damaged crank bearings etc...)

Again this is HAPPENING BEFORE the computer has time to adjust (pull timing or boost).. Little too much and you will be rebuilding the engine... if you are tuned dont SKIMP in the octane department!
Precisely how it was described to me by experts, "it's like smacking the top of the piston with a huge hammer". That's why you often see cracked ring lands or bent rods.
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this will explain it better than I could...

Difference Between Knocking and Detonation

February 28, 2018 Posted by Madhu


Key Difference – Knocking vs Detonation

Knocking and detonation are often confusing, but they are both different terms that are used to explain problems in engines. Knocking is the creation of vibrations or sharp sounds in an engine due to improper initiation of the combustion as a response to ignition by spark plug. Knocking should not be confused with pre-ignition. Detonation is either the pre-ignition or auto-ignition of a fuel in an engine’s combustion chamber. The key difference between knocking and detonation is that, knocking brings several drawbacks to the engine such as, overheating of spark plug points, erosion of the combustion chamber surface and rough, inefficient operation whereas detonation can cause abrasion, mechanical damage and overheating in engines.
CONTENTS
1. Overview and Key Difference
2. What is Knocking
3. What is Detonation
4. Similarities Between Knocking and Detonation
5. Side by Side Comparison – Knocking vs Detonation in Tabular Form
6. Summary

What is Knocking?
Knocking is the making sharp sounds due to uneven combustion of fuel in the cylinder of a vehicle engine. It happens because the air-fuel mixture inside the cylinder does not properly initiate the combustion as a response to ignition by spark plug. A spark plug is a device that can deliver an electric current from an ignition system to a combustion chamber to ignite an air-fuel mixture by an electric spark. When put in simple terms, knocking is the vibration of engine due to pressure waves produced from the uneven combustion. This produces an audible knock.
There can be several reasons that cause knocking in engines. One reason is faulty spark plugs. Spark plugs can age and break down overtime. The life of spark plug depends on the condition and type of the spark plug. Another possible reason for knocking is use of low octane fuel.
Octane rating/octane number: This is a figure indicating the anti-knock properties of a fuel, based on a comparison with a mixture of isooctane and heptane. Gasoline from refineries comes in different octane ratings. Higher the octane rating of a fuel, the greater the compression it can withstand before igniting.
Another cause for knocking is carbon deposits in cylinder. Most of the times, carbon cleaning agents are used to prevent carbon deposits that can clog the cylinder. But there can be still a little amount of deposits form. When these deposits are formed, there is less space available for air and fuel in the cylinder. Therefore, fuel compressions can occur that may lead to knocking.

Difference Between Knocking and Detonation


Figure 01: A Car Engine
Knocking brings some several drawbacks to the engine such as,
  • Overheating of spark plug points
  • Erosion of the combustion chamber surface
  • Rough, inefficient operation

What is Detonation?
Detonation is the process of pre-ignition or auto-ignition of a fuel in an engine’s combustion chamber. This is often occurred due to use of fuel with low octane rating. This means that the fuel starts to burn before the spark plug fire and electric current. Detonation is characterized by an instantaneous, explosive ignition.
Key Difference Between Knocking and Detonation

Figure 02: A Combustion Chamber
Some of the causes for detonation are low-grade engine fuel usage and overheated spark plug tips. Low-grade engine fuels cause deterioration of engine parts. An overheated spark plug tip may cause pre-ignition. Some several preventive measures for denotation are as below:
  • Use of high-grade engine fuels
  • Enhancing air-fuel ratio in the cylinder
  • Reduce ignition timing
  • Reducing the load on engine
What are the Similarities Between Knocking and Detonation?
  • Both Knocking and Detonation are problems arising in vehicle engines.
  • Both Knocking and Detonation can cause unfavorable operation in the engine.
What is the Difference Between Knocking and Detonation?
Knocking vs Detonation
Knocking is the making sharp sounds due to uneven combustion of fuel in the cylinder of a vehicle engine.Detonation is the process of pre-ignition or auto-ignition of a fuel in an engine’s combustion chamber.
Effect on the Engine
Knocking brings several drawbacks to the engine such as, overheating of spark plug points, erosion of the combustion chamber surface and rough, inefficient operation.Detonation can cause abrasion, mechanical damage and overheating in engines.
Prevention
Knocking can be prevented by replacing spark plugs, avoiding carbon deposit formation, using fuel with high octane rating, etc.Denotation can be prevented by use of high-grade engine fuels, enhancing air-fuel ratio in the cylinder, reduce ignition timing and reducing the load on engine.
Summary – Knocking vs Detonation
Knocking and detonation are problems in engines that are often found in vehicles. Most of the times, the two terms are confusing and used interchangeably. But they are two different situations in engines, as discussed above in this article. The difference between knocking and detonation is that, knocking brings some several drawbacks to the engine such as, overheating of spark plug points, erosion of the combustion chamber surface and rough, inefficient operation whereas detonation can cause abrasion, mechanical damage and overheating in engines.
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Do we have a preferred fuel treatment for octane boost?
I personally don't like using additives/boosters that contain MMT (VP, Boostane, Torco) or any other that turns your spark plugs/exhaust orange. I prefer using "Klotz Higher octane booster" with no MMT..
There are a couple threads on boosters, and a few of us have our preferences. I use Boostane Pro (even though 2020 doesn’t want me too) and I haven’t had any negative effects, a few people use Torco as well
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