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Discussion Starter #1
I have this issue, and before the dealer says they've never heard of such a thing and tries to charge me $1billion dollars to replace the secondary spring, I was hoping someone had the bulletin or article # for within the dealer system for them to reference. Otherwise, what spring is everyone using to replace it with, and I'll just buy it and have it put in while they are doing the recall stuff.

JC
 

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I don't think there is a bulletin for that.
 

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theres nothing wrong with the springs ,
 

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The spring may or may not be weak, I've seen great variances between machines but I raced a bone stock maverick against mine which has the black violet dalton torsional spring and I consistently beat him by a length. Up to 45 mph we was dead even and after that I started pulling on him.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
When it was stock it pulled up to 7500, then shifted out and ran to 8k, no overrev, now it revs to 7500, drops back to 7200, then eventually finds it's way to 8k. You can feel it happen and see it on the dash. I've read over and over that there was a significant difference in some of the springs and this was the symptom, which makes complete sense.
 

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yeah there is another guy on here that has been dealing with this problem. I believe he has not been able to get it fixed yet even after replacing the springs.
 

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I went through 2 stock secondary springs before I jumped ship to the dalton black/violet. Its been working great ever since. You guys are being robbed of so much power until you get the secondary spring changed out. There's a big difference in torque in these machines when it hits 7950 instead of 7200 and drop to 6850.
 

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When the spring is too soft it'll cause the seconday to shift early and you'll see the rpm drop. Like missing a gear in a 6 speed.
 

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I went through 2 stock secondary springs before I jumped ship to the dalton black/violet. Its been working great ever since. You guys are being robbed of so much power until you get the secondary spring changed out. There's a big difference in torque in these machines when it hits 7950 instead of 7200 and drop to 6850.
Is your setup stock other than this spring? Also, can you please tell me what altitude you live and ride at.....
 

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I went through 2 stock secondary springs before I jumped ship to the dalton black/violet. Its been working great ever since. You guys are being robbed of so much power until you get the secondary spring changed out. There's a big difference in torque in these machines when it hits 7950 instead of 7200 and drop to 6850.
Are there any other effects changing the spring causes? Engine braking, low speed engagement, top speed?
Probably a dumb question which part of the clutch are you changing the spring on primary or secondary?
 

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i talked with Dalton about this use of their spring, he said he is not behind it and does NOT recommend it. He like me would recommend the whole kit that was designed together.

I know you should never control shift speed with a secondary spring, you do it with weights.

Also, you should never just torque the secondary with the torsional secondary spring, you must torque to 15ftlbs then turn 180 degrees. This is critical on a torsional spring

Todd
 

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Is your setup stock other than this spring? Also, can you please tell me what altitude you live and ride at.....
Mine is stock other than the spring right now. I've got a QSC/STM on the way. I ride anywhere from sea level to 1500ft elevation.
 

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i talked with Dalton about this use of their spring, he said he is not behind it and does NOT recommend it. He like me would recommend the whole kit that was designed together.

I know you should never control shift speed with a secondary spring, you do it with weights.

Also, you should never just torque the secondary with the torsional secondary spring, you must torque to 15ftlbs then turn 180 degrees. This is critical on a torsional spring

Todd
Just asking here because I don't know... but what can be damaged by just having the spring? Of course the manufacturer is going to recommend the whole kit... its more $$$ in their pocket. I also torqued mine to the factory settings. 20-25 hours later and its still doing perfect. Can you explain in a little more detail?
 

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Just asking here because I don't know... but what can be damaged by just having the spring? Of course the manufacturer is going to recommend the whole kit... its more $$$ in their pocket. I also torqued mine to the factory settings. 20-25 hours later and its still doing perfect. Can you explain in a little more detail?
I assure you that is not the case with Dalton, way too much integrity for that and that goes double for Hunterworks.

Stiffening up the secondary spring adds belt grip and makes it harder for the primary weights to open it. So it is fighting the primary hence your added rpm, most get reduced top speed due to this. Parts should match. Go get a book by Olav Aaen the clutch god and he states you never control shift speed with a secondary spring.

On the torqueing, you might get away with it but this is the proper method stated by Can Am for a torsional spring for use in one of 1000cc ATV's, it is right out of the service manual. Just torquing it is for the stock spring.

The damage is not from the spring but improper torquing and the secondaries coming apart. Not 100% of people but it happens. So just do it this way and be done
Todd
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Ok...so the Dalton is a no go, and it doesn't look like the dealer knows anything about the issue I'm describing, shocking I know, so I guess I'll have them put a stock one in and hope for the best. Not too hopeful.

JC
 

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I still wouldn't say it is a no go. There are plenty of people on here including myself that have put them on and not had any issues. To be honest, I haven't heard of anyone having any issues with the dalton spring.

If you have the dealer put on another stock spring, you are going to have to keep going back to get it replaced every other month...
 

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Discussion Starter #17
What Todd is saying is correct, I was just hoping that the Dalton was a better version of the stock spring, as opposed to a different unit altogether....with it being a whole different animal, I don't think that's the direction I'll go. I wonder if EPI has a "stock replacement" ....something that's built a little better but without any additional (over stock) psi....
 

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The secondary spring in a Dalton Clutch kit for the maverick is a different version of a compression spring,...we also have a different version of a torsion spring (black/violet) that is used when called for for certain applications. These applications are right on the website:
Dalton Industries, Ltd. - ATV Products CANAM/BRP

There are some out there using the heavy torsional spring with a different primary clutch, etc...it in that case possibly the secondary faces different opposing force from the primary...a different primary.

CVT clutches run best in "balance between primary and secondary" What works on one model is not relevant to another model. Each situation is different. Sometimes all that is needed to balance things properly is one spring or the other..or both...sometimes everything needs changed.
People being people they sometimes "assume" that because someone is using it with a different type of primary that it is the answer with a totally stock primary. I have no problem selling a bunch of springs for "money in the pocket" like stated above, ...but if you want input, I can assure you that this was not the most efficient set up (using that black violet secondary by itself) ...just based on some "somewhat related" info that someone ran with a different primary clutch on there. the secondary spring in our clutch kit for most applications is a heavier compression type spring.

I love tuning, and if someone chooses to "slow up the shift" of the secondary to prop up rpm and it achieves what they want then go for it. I'm not here to tell anyone to buy or not buy anything....if you like to tune, you will experiment and we all do that. No problem with me. I do feel that for most it will rev high in mid range cruising and seem to rev and go nowhere on hardpac cruising, ..and it will slow speed a bit maybe if used with small tires on hardpac...but it is all tuning and some prefer to do it on their own. Have at it, I'm just saying it is not what we recommend.

As for the maverick, there are lots out there that claim falling rpm., our test unit did this as well..."come out at 7800, then fall down on rpm until the belt runs out of travel on the primary clutch ...then start to run up again". We address that a different way.
... there are also some shooting for very high rpm from what I read here...mostly, it seems, based on some dyno information on a piped model that showed best hp up at close to 8000 (and I'm not saying the dyno number is not correct, sometimes mods move the power peak to a different level). I can assure you that I have tested this vehicle in many different forms with different terrain and tire sizes in different types of load situations and such. a STOCK engine and exhaust will run stronger at 76-7750 than it will at 8000... it falls off anything over 7850...all stock. ...I have proven it to myself on plenty of occasions to verify. That proving was done with different calibrations of the primary and of the secondary....different styles and cuts of prototype flyweights,...different primary spring pressures ...different types and pressures of secondary springs and combinations of all of the above. Some people think "more rpm is better" or as high as the rev limit will allow will always be most power, but sometimes slowing the up shift ...so it will rev at a higher rpm than where it makes best hp is not the best thing either. Just like a stick shift in a drag car...shift it at the right sweet spot, there is no sense to hold it too long in each gear and rev too high. Use the best part of the power curve.


I'm not sure if it had been mentioned yet on here, but brp does have the new bulletin out last week, ...and parts are available now for the updated new primary stud and nut/ set screw configuration to hold the primary on instead of a primary bolt.
This bulletin was issued last Friday to North American Can Am dealers...and it comes with the procedures and the can am parts kit to change the primary bolt assembly to the new stuff.

...as for us selling "big kits for money in the pocket comment"...have a look at some of our kits and recommendations for ..say..500 Outlander, for many Kawaski models where we were the ones who said you do not need to buy flyweights...or the 800 Polaris atv's...or the use of only one spring in a Yamaha rhino....maybe look at our website and see what we recommend for a Renegade 1000 ATV with stock 25" tires ! (If staying with light stock 25" we say leave it alone)...

thus the reason my visit here will probably be of short duration.

We are easy to get a hold of, however, right on our website via email "contact us" is the best way.
 

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What Todd is saying is correct, I was just hoping that the Dalton was a better version of the stock spring, as opposed to a different unit altogether....with it being a whole different animal, I don't think that's the direction I'll go. I wonder if EPI has a "stock replacement" ....something that's built a little better but without any additional (over stock) psi....
What I would recommend is the whole kit not the sprig only from anyone and Dalton which wrote that above is basically saying that.

I simply have not started selling the dalton kit yet due to me not putting mine on, making the install video and writing my own tech article about it.

No doubt what Dalton says is true, I trust Dalton totally
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Ton of info from some knowledgeable people here. Thanks.

I am now wondering about maybe just doing an stm secondary and being done with it....
 
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