[Megadesertdiesel]

before i drop some coin on clutches, is it really wirth it? are the STM a pita to tune? do i need a box of high dollar springs and weights? do they need to be rebuilt every season? how much is it to rebuild the clutches?

just trying to justify a $1600+ purchase to gain 10hp to the ground.

 

[C.Moore]

From all the research I've done I'm planning on going full STM with a rage 3, I originally wanted the rage 6 but the clutch pros all said the 6 was overkill for my type of riding and would be a complete bitch to tune since it's a much more complicated design

 

[carsner2004]

i can give you a pretty good answer after this weekend, i am installing a set of rage 6 stm on my buddies maverick tomorrow, gonna do a before and after run on asphalt and then ride this weekend... i will let you know the results

 

[Benzo]

I hear rage 3 stm/stm gen II is the best so far


rage 6 if ur boosting

 

[chrisbw]

i can give you a pretty good answer after this weekend, i am installing a set of rage 6 stm on my buddies maverick tomorrow, gonna do a before and after run on asphalt and then ride this weekend... i will let you know the results

I'm real interested in the results. I have the QSC/STM and I'm about one length faster than a stock mav on dirt. I 've been curious about the rage6 after seeing that video on the stm sight.

 

[Madmav]

I have the full STM set up with the rage 6 and love it, when you order it they will set it up to how you drive. I only needed to tweak it a bit when I got it. It comes with all the weights and rollers you will need to tune and will out last your quad.

 

[st222]

Good thread cause I'm in the mist of trying to get the STM rage 3 and STM secondary.

 

[WVXRS]

Does anyone know if the STM Rage 3/STM Secondary fits inside the 2014 clutch cover without modification? I know the Full STM has a shorter shaft on the secondary, just wondering if that is enough to make it fit. If so I am ready to buy also.

 

[desertdog]

before i drop some coin on clutches, is it really wirth it? are the STM a pita to tune? do i need a box of high dollar springs and weights? do they need to be rebuilt every season? how much is it to rebuild the clutches?

just trying to justify a $1600+ purchase to gain 10hp to the ground.

I can't speak about the STM primary but I will say that the QSC/STM set up I have was worth every penny and I would make the purchase again. That is just from running it down the street a few times. It is a very noticeable improvement right from the launch and you can feel the harder pull all the way up to top speed. That mixed with the security factor of more reliability made it worth it for me. Also, I have not done any additional tuning.

 

[NO4NCRP]

I have(had) the QSC/STM set up in a maverick for a while now and just put the rage 6 set up in it last night. Going too do some comparisons as soon as the rain stops. To answer your question directly, YES it is worth it

 

[Megadesertdiesel]

2k for rage 6 and gen 2 secondary is a lot in my book. I still have a couple quoted to come in.

 

[WVXRS]

I have(had) the QSC/STM set up in a maverick for a while now and just put the rage 6 set up in it last night. Going too do some comparisons as soon as the rain stops. To answer your question directly, YES it is worth it

Can't wait to hear your thoughts.

 

[///AIRDAM]

the STM rage 3 is not the "best" and whatever clutch "guru" you talked to that said the rage 3 was better than a rage 6 is not a clutch "guru" just probably scared of having to tune extra weights out. i myself look at what the owner and rider needs and wants. for the guys who are slow speed technical riding, needing maximum clamping force at engagement for high loads like slow speed technical climbs up rocks hills ect, i prefer the rage 6 because of its additional clamping force it creates. for the guys who are just wide open trail riders with their foot in the floor all the time and very little slow speed stuff, a rage 3 will work fine. the rage 3 only has the 3 base flyweights, which by design dont make an incredble amount of clamping force at engagement. just the design of a flyweight primary, right at engagement they dont make a whole lot of clamping force, so trying to use a rage 3 and expecting it to hold maximum clamping force for slow speed technical climbing is gonna leave you with a slipping belt. BUT for the guys blasting wide open throttle on the trails that dont need a whole lot of slow speed clamping, a rage 3 is good.

the rage 6 is barely heavier than the rage 3, only a few ounces. so the rotational mass on the crankshaft is not a huge difference to worry about.

OEM = 14.2 lbs loaded with weights and spring
Rage 3 = 11.6 lbs without weights and spring on older model with 6061 T6 spyder
Rage 6 = 11.9 lbs without weights and spring on older model with 6061 T6 spyder
Rage 8 = 11.1 lbs without weights and spring on older model with 6061 T6 spyder

the new ones built for the maverick have a 7075 spyder for added strength. i cant say that i have weighed a new rage 3 and rage 6 with the heavier built sypder so i am sorry but i dont exactly know their weight.

but looking at the overall weights of each clutch you can clearly see that the rage series is lighter than the OEM clutch, and much better built. once you realize that their tunability is what we're after, you can see what a benefit they are to us. kris trying to push a rage 3 on everybody because it "fits' their riding style is not what i would do. i dont think a rage 3 fits everyone, matter of fact i KNOW it does not fit everyone. have all of you guys noticed that he was on here every single day, all day long pumping up the QSC left and right over and over when things were good and he was able to get the QSC clutches, then after his big group buy, and QSC stopped production and was unable to deliver, kris got quiet for a little bit, jumped ship and started pumping up STM left and right

the FULL STM does fit inside the 2014 cover on the 2 seater fine. its the 4 seater with the extra ducting that has to have the ducting modified. i am trying to fabricate a new inlet that will replace the factory inlet that bolts into the cover on the 4 seaters. i have only done 2 4seat machines so i have not had alot of time with the cover, both of the machines were brought to me as a quick install and tune only. i did not get to spend alot of tinkering time with the machines to be able to nail down an exact proper fitting coupler. but i have a design worked out that i am going to try on the next 4 seat machine that comes in. for any of you guys that have actually taken apart one of the 2014s, and see the new stud/nut design, i am waiting on the next 2014 to come thru so i can do a disassembly video on how to pull the stud/nut assembly out and back the stud out so that you can remove the clutch. the first one i ran across the other day, i did not even think about it untill i had it nearly apart, but i am going to do a disassembly video on them so you guys will know how to pull them apart. i have done the 2 seater 2014 with no probelms since it still has the box with 3 snorkels. the maverick MAX is the only one right now that i know of that is getting the new box with 4 snorkels. when you pull up the parts fische, the parts page shows both boxes in the diagram. i am sure they'll start adding the new box with 4 snorkels to all the machines, i am unsure when it will happen, but as i have seen so far, the 2014 2 seaters still have the original maverick box that has 3 snorkels.

 

[heavysledz]

the STM rage 3 is not the "best" and whatever clutch "guru" you talked to that said the rage 3 was better than a rage 6 is not a clutch "guru" just probably scared of having to tune extra weights out. i myself look at what the owner and rider needs and wants. for the guys who are slow speed technical riding, needing maximum clamping force at engagement for high loads like slow speed technical climbs up rocks hills ect, i prefer the rage 6 because of its additional clamping force it creates. for the guys who are just wide open trail riders with their foot in the floor all the time and very little slow speed stuff, a rage 3 will work fine. the rage 3 only has the 3 base flyweights, which by design dont make an incredble amount of clamping force at engagement. just the design of a flyweight primary, right at engagement they dont make a whole lot of clamping force, so trying to use a rage 3 and expecting it to hold maximum clamping force for slow speed technical climbing is gonna leave you with a slipping belt. BUT for the guys blasting wide open throttle on the trails that dont need a whole lot of slow speed clamping, a rage 3 is good.

the rage 6 is barely heavier than the rage 3, only a few ounces. so the rotational mass on the crankshaft is not a huge difference to worry about.

OEM = 14.2 lbs loaded with weights and spring
Rage 3 = 11.6 lbs without weights and spring on older model with 6061 T6 spyder
Rage 6 = 11.9 lbs without weights and spring on older model with 6061 T6 spyder
Rage 8 = 11.1 lbs without weights and spring on older model with 6061 T6 spyder

the new ones built for the maverick have a 7075 spyder for added strength. i cant say that i have weighed a new rage 3 and rage 6 with the heavier built sypder so i am sorry but i dont exactly know their weight.

but looking at the overall weights of each clutch you can clearly see that the rage series is lighter than the OEM clutch, and much better built. once you realize that their tunability is what we're after, you can see what a benefit they are to us. kris trying to push a rage 3 on everybody because it "fits' their riding style is not what i would do. i dont think a rage 3 fits everyone, matter of fact i KNOW it does not fit everyone. have all of you guys noticed that he was on here every single day, all day long pumping up the QSC left and right over and over when things were good and he was able to get the QSC clutches, then after his big group buy, and QSC stopped production and was unable to deliver, kris got quiet for a little bit, jumped ship and started pumping up STM left and right

the FULL STM does fit inside the 2014 cover on the 2 seater fine. its the 4 seater with the extra ducting that has to have the ducting modified. i am trying to fabricate a new inlet that will replace the factory inlet that bolts into the cover on the 4 seaters. i have only done 2 4seat machines so i have not had alot of time with the cover, both of the machines were brought to me as a quick install and tune only. i did not get to spend alot of tinkering time with the machines to be able to nail down an exact proper fitting coupler. but i have a design worked out that i am going to try on the next 4 seat machine that comes in. for any of you guys that have actually taken apart one of the 2014s, and see the new stud/nut design, i am waiting on the next 2014 to come thru so i can do a disassembly video on how to pull the stud/nut assembly out and back the stud out so that you can remove the clutch. the first one i ran across the other day, i did not even think about it untill i had it nearly apart, but i am going to do a disassembly video on them so you guys will know how to pull them apart. i have done the 2 seater 2014 with no probelms since it still has the box with 3 snorkels. the maverick MAX is the only one right now that i know of that is getting the new box with 4 snorkels. when you pull up the parts fische, the parts page shows both boxes in the diagram. i am sure they'll start adding the new box with 4 snorkels to all the machines, i am unsure when it will happen, but as i have seen so far, the 2014 2 seaters still have the original maverick box that has 3 snorkels.

We appreciate your feedback and knowledgeable information regarding the different clutches but please let's not use this forum as an opportunity to bash your competitors. You are making assumptions about Kris' recommendations based on your opinion and have no factual evidence to back up your claims. I know for a fact (not an assumption) that Kris has been offering the STM primaries because of availability. Several folks have contacted him recently and said they need them right away so he told them he could get the STM but not the QSC so the buyers chose to get the STM over the QSC. Kris is not "Pushing" the STM now any more than he was a few months ago. We also know why he isn't spending 24/7 on the forum at this time since he is back in school.

Again, we appreciate having folks such as yourself on here to provide the end users with valuable information to allow us to make an educated decision when it comes time to purchase. So let's keep the posts about the facts and not turn it into a bashing session or down playing competitors.

 

[///AIRDAM]

as a clutch tuner, i do not see him as an oponent or competitor. i see him as a salesman who pushes whatever he can get his hands on to make money. my beliefs of his competence as a clutch tuner come from seeing his handy work when he actually put his own hands on a clutch. the things he sells, do come pre-tuned, by the company that builds them. QSC and STM do a heck of a good job at what they do. kris selling those items makes him look good. he is a good salesman. never knocked him for that he sure draws in business. but from a tuner standpoint, if he was a "guru" he would not be pushing folks into buying things that dont work for them. i can see in your signature that you have one of the items i am referring to. you may think your setup is the best thing ever, cause you were told it was gonna be the best thing ever. but from my "tuning" standpoint i know for a fact, based on my own tests, that what you own, and have installed in your machine is not the "best" as you were probably sold it to be. it works "good" but if you were an actual tuner and knew what to look for you would see alot of room left on the table.

 

[WVXRS]

as a clutch tuner, i do not see him as an oponent or competitor. i see him as a salesman who pushes whatever he can get his hands on to make money. my beliefs of his competence as a clutch tuner come from seeing his handy work when he actually put his own hands on a clutch. the things he sells, do come pre-tuned, by the company that builds them. QSC and STM do a heck of a good job at what they do. kris selling those items makes him look good. he is a good salesman. never knocked him for that he sure draws in business. but from a tuner standpoint, if he was a "guru" he would not be pushing folks into buying things that dont work for them. i can see in your signature that you have one of the items i am referring to. you may think your setup is the best thing ever, cause you were told it was gonna be the best thing ever. but from my "tuning" standpoint i know for a fact, based on my own tests, that what you own, and have installed in your machine is not the "best" as you were probably sold it to be. it works "good" but if you were an actual tuner and knew what to look for you would see alot of room left on the table.

I'll bite---

You do have a ton of knowledge, no one doubts that. Actually I think everyone loves your work. Wether is true or not the Internet says you are difficult to reach. Not here to debate that just making a point as to why sometimes you aren't always the go to guy.

Anyhow what's the best setup for me. I have money burning in my pocket. I previously have had the QSC and really loved it, but I'm not loyal to anything other than my wife.

If you can show it's better then I'm all ears.


Maverick Max - 28" Baja Cross - tons of accessories - live in West Va so it's hills and creeks.

What's your thoughts?

 

[heavysledz]

///AIRDAM - as a clutch tuner, i do not see him as an oponent or competitor. i see him as a salesman who pushes whatever he can get his hands on to make money. my beliefs of his competence as a clutch tuner come from seeing his handy work when he actually put his own hands on a clutch. the things he sells, do come pre-tuned, by the company that builds them. QSC and STM do a heck of a good job at what they do. kris selling those items makes him look good. he is a good salesman. never knocked him for that he sure draws in business. but from a tuner standpoint, if he was a "guru" he would not be pushing folks into buying things that dont work for them. i can see in your signature that you have one of the items i am referring to. you may think your setup is the best thing ever, cause you were told it was gonna be the best thing ever. but from my "tuning" standpoint i know for a fact, based on my own tests, that what you own, and have installed in your machine is not the "best" as you were probably sold it to be. it works "good" but if you were an actual tuner and knew what to look for you would see alot of room left on the table.

I am far from brand loyal to any product. I am not defending Kris because I purchased a QSC primary from him or because I think it is the best clutch on the market. I am sure the CVTech primary is an excellent piece as well as the STM primaries. I bought it based on the overwhelming amount of positive feedback others on the forum have had with these clutches and I wanted a good performing clutch set that was reliable. I purchased from Kris because of his pre and post sales customer support. Again, I am not saying yours is any better or any worse, but there are countless numbers of people that have his products and have nothing but good things to say about the products and his support.

Regarding your comments about Kris only being a salesman is far from the truth and he does not just sell them and have QSC and STM drop ship them with their setups. Kris recommends the starting setup based on input received from the end user and then he personally orders the primary from either STM or QSC and then he personally sets them up before shipping it out. Yes he has on occasion had the secondary's drop shipped but he orders it with correct helix and spring setup all ready installed so there is no need to have it shipped to his shop to have it setup. And on a rare occasion, he has had STM do the same on the primaries but again, he is the one who determines the setup not the manufacturer. So if that is your definition of a salesman I guess he is a damn good salesman. Last time I checked, you don't manufacture your clutches either so I guess that makes you a salesman as well.

Again, you sound like you know your clutches very well and have a great product but by you bashing on your competitors (yes Kris is your competitor) all you are doing is tarnishing your own credibility as a tuner and vendor. Your products and customer service should speak for themselves. If you have to go defend yourself or your products, you have all ready lost.

 

[KRIS]

I laugh at this. Only because I smell fear in the air. Someone is mad because they are no longer the front runner on the forums. STM made changes to their rage primaries which made the 3 arm clutch a viable primary over their older one. I've actually personally done quite a bit of R&D for STM and QSC. They are now running setups that I personally derived. I guess this is something only a "salesman" would be capable of. I get people setup with what fits them. I have options. I offer CV Tech, STM, QSC, EPI Kits, Dalton Kits. No one ever said that a rage 3 was "better" than a rage 6. I do know that sometimes it doesn't fit the budget though. $1540 over $2015 is a bit more appealing for some. Then we have folks who just want a replacement primary. STM requires a secondary so I would suggest a QSC.

What I don't do is lie to anyone. I am very informative and helpful when need be.

With all of this being said I refuse to argue bicker or put anyone else down. I have a reputation and I will always stand up to it . I am a combat veteran as well as a full time college student. I have taken a special interest in ATV fuel injection tuning and clutching over the years (been in the business since 2008). Clearly some people will do whatever it takes to pull someone doing good down with them.


And to answer the Original Poster. I personally send out the clutches preconfigured with a setup that I have personally tested on multiple machines. You will get all the weights needed to make any adjustments in the future (bigger/smaller tires, etc). Same thing with helix and springs. They are all included. If anywhere down the road we need to swap anything out I will send you what you need and have you ship me the spring or helix back. Free of charge. Any further questions feel free to email me at [email protected] coldbloodedperformance.com


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

 

[desertdog]

WHOOOOOP......there it is!!

 

[Megadesertdiesel]

Thanks for the info guys, i really agree to leaving the B.S. at the door. At the end of the day all i really care about is me and my machines performance.

thanks again, i will be making a purchase early next week.