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Shock Therapy will dial your suspension the way you want it. You tell them what you want and thats what you will get. I wanted mine to ride the best when its full loaded, and it does. Rides stiff when its just me and not fully loaded. Mine might be to good now as I hit big rocks way to fast and It feels fine until I hear another part break. LOL
 

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As far as value for the $ wether it's ST or Eibach, yes it's worth it. Cheap upgrade for what you get.

I personally don't care what the rate is. They ST has far more knowledge than me or anybody on this site really.
Have to disagree there. You should know what you are putting on your car, you are paying for them! If you just add springs now and want to get them valved later without knowing the spring rates tuners can't use the springs. There is no magical sauce behind spring rates.
 

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Have to disagree there. You should know what you are putting on your car, you are paying for them! If you just add springs now and want to get them valved later without knowing the spring rates tuners can't use the springs. There is no magical sauce behind spring rates.
Oh OK. Got it! Thanks!
 

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Why is there such hate for ST? I'm about to purchase a set myself from the simple fact every part I've bought from ST is well engineered and machined, installs perfect first time, and works as intended...this coming from an engineer with a long background in Product Design and MFG. Not that any of that matters but it goes to say is there something I missed about ST to why almost every thread turns into ST is the devil because they don't share rates? Look for $100 extra buy the Eibachs I mean we all spent $30k or more on these machines $100 isn't going to break the bank. I personally have seen a number of aftermarket parts for these cars and generally ST are pretty high quality same as say EVP. I remember when I first got my X3 so many said stay away from EVP they are just a huge company that overcharges blah blah...funny I have a lot of their parts now too...

Also, worth noting every suspension tuner I've spoken to does not like or agree with Eibachs OTS spring kits...hence why they all use their own combos. Some of which they won't share either (but at least you can tell on Eibachs)...So ultimately with simple deductive reasoning spring kits are worthless without valving hence why every shop pushes to do both. So...being if I got ST, MTS, UTVShocks, etc. they are ALL going to valve my shocks for the rates chosen. So WTF does me knowing the rates make any difference? It's not like I'm going to go back to Justin or Tom Morris and say hey man I need 27lbs more springrate on the front right.

Frankly, seems there are a select few on this forum that think they know everything, are professional forum racers because they hit the dunes a few times a year, and want to push some hidden agenda because I guess politics? Unless I can see concrete evidence on why ST springs are "junk", inferior to others, and pics of failing/sagging springs that weren't warrantied I have a hard time believing useless forum slander. Like another poster said, figuring out rates isn't hard whatever so besides not manufacturing a PN on the side of the spring any shock tuner worth a snot can figure out the rate in about 10min. If they can't I'd be a hell of a lot more worried than what the logo says on my springs.
Having the rates for each spring is important for quite a few reasons IF you go through a company that can pick a custom rate setup for your application. For example you call and say hey I am running a 2 seat X3 with a cage, rack tools, stereo and a full size 32" spare on a roof rack. Cool we pick rates specific to that and your to ride specifics. (as much as possible without vavling). You get your spirngs and after a few months you want to go to a 35" tire and your back says F%^K the roof rack so you build a tire hanger to hang the tire off the rear of the car. Knowing all 8 spring rates gives you the information needed by either us or any other good tuner to be able to take that information and up the rates of either the rear lower or upper spring rate depending on initial setup. This is a very simple example of why you NEED the spring rates. I personally will never own an apple product because I will not be married to apple and all that they require for services and all that. if you do go to a shock company that's worth it's ass and they can pick custom spring rates. and then choose because of conveince to have a closer shop do some tuning with ST springs they are not going to have the baseline to start from and IF they have a shock dyno you are now paying for the labor to find out spring rates you should already have. No bashing, it's just the facts.
 

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Having the rates for each spring is important for quite a few reasons IF you go through a company that can pick a custom rate setup for your application. For example you call and say hey I am running a 2 seat X3 with a cage, rack tools, stereo and a full size 32" spare on a roof rack. Cool we pick rates specific to that and your to ride specifics. (as much as possible without vavling). You get your spirngs and after a few months you want to go to a 35" tire and your back says F%^K the roof rack so you build a tire hanger to hang the tire off the rear of the car. Knowing all 8 spring rates gives you the information needed by either us or any other good tuner to be able to take that information and up the rates of either the rear lower or upper spring rate depending on initial setup. This is a very simple example of why you NEED the spring rates. I personally will never own an apple product because I will not be married to apple and all that they require for services and all that. if you do go to a shock company that's worth it's ass and they can pick custom spring rates. and then choose because of conveince to have a closer shop do some tuning with ST springs they are not going to have the baseline to start from and IF they have a shock dyno you are now paying for the labor to find out spring rates you should already have. No bashing, it's just the facts.
No. The experts on here said you only need a tape measure and a scale to figure out the rates. It's not rocket science there bud.
 

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To the OP - if you intend on doing some valving then pick a shock tuner and use the springs they recommend.

As stated the magic is in the valving if you truly want the best ride. I did a step by step process on my shock set up on my old X3. There is a thread on here somewhere.

I started off with just a spring kit, which was a big improvement for the dunes. The spring kit did very little when I hit the hard pack. Next step was some valving changes in the compression adjuster which helped and then ended up doing the full valve job. I have used two different shock tuners on my old X3. The second guy Tom Morris worked wonders on my shocks. So much so I used him again on my new X3.

I had Shock Therapy on my XP1000. They did the full work and it rode awesome.

My suggestion is talk to the shock tuners you maybe interested in and the conversation will lead you to the one you want touching your shocks.


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THIS RIGHT HERE!!!!!
 

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Having the rates for each spring is important for quite a few reasons IF you go through a company that can pick a custom rate setup for your application. For example you call and say hey I am running a 2 seat X3 with a cage, rack tools, stereo and a full size 32" spare on a roof rack. Cool we pick rates specific to that and your to ride specifics. (as much as possible without vavling). You get your spirngs and after a few months you want to go to a 35" tire and your back says F%^K the roof rack so you build a tire hanger to hang the tire off the rear of the car. Knowing all 8 spring rates gives you the information needed by either us or any other good tuner to be able to take that information and up the rates of either the rear lower or upper spring rate depending on initial setup. This is a very simple example of why you NEED the spring rates. I personally will never own an apple product because I will not be married to apple and all that they require for services and all that. if you do go to a shock company that's worth it's ass and they can pick custom spring rates. and then choose because of conveince to have a closer shop do some tuning with ST springs they are not going to have the baseline to start from and IF they have a shock dyno you are now paying for the labor to find out spring rates you should already have. No bashing, it's just the facts.
I had Alex do the shocks on my OG TURBO when they first came out and he was great to work with. I know he has gotten huge since then and does come on here much anymore but it's nice to see you posting even if Alex does not have time.

I and I'm sure others appreciate the insight from guys who do this for a living.

Oh and tell Alex I said hey and I don't hold it against him for switching to team Polaris for his racing team sponsorship...much! 🤣

Tim
 

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I had Alex do the shocks on my OG TURBO when they first came out and he was great to work with. I know he has gotten huge since then and does come on here much anymore but it's nice to see you posting even if Alex does not have time.

I and I'm sure others appreciate the insight from guys who do this for a living.

Oh and tell Alex I said hey and I don't hold it against him for switching to team Polaris for his racing team sponsorship...much! 🤣

Tim
LOL I will tell him you said hi. He barely has time to pee.... Hell he's loading the mini CNC lathe right now with bar stock lol. Man the Po Po was years ago and that was one of our homies rides. We are Can Am through and through!!! Just trying to add some insight here so peeps can have the most inforation in hand. We don't bash... ain't nobody got time for that!
 

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I've weighed mine before. Those estimated dry weights are garbage. Mine was 1950 without me in it with half tank of gas. If you weigh with full tank I'll guess 1850.
The overall weight is good to know but the more crucial number is the sprung weight. Thats's why we ask for specifics on every aftermarket item, tool, beer, and occupant weights. Sprung weight does come into play with rebound in extremeley fast desert racing and believe it or not the huge tire setups on mud rigs when we do valve them. Especially for bounty hole rigs where they can reach ludacris speed and launch out of the hole. There is a TON of wheel, tire and portal weight to consider.
 

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Having the rates for each spring is important for quite a few reasons IF you go through a company that can pick a custom rate setup for your application. For example you call and say hey I am running a 2 seat X3 with a cage, rack tools, stereo and a full size 32" spare on a roof rack. Cool we pick rates specific to that and your to ride specifics. (as much as possible without vavling). You get your spirngs and after a few months you want to go to a 35" tire and your back says F%^K the roof rack so you build a tire hanger to hang the tire off the rear of the car. Knowing all 8 spring rates gives you the information needed by either us or any other good tuner to be able to take that information and up the rates of either the rear lower or upper spring rate depending on initial setup. This is a very simple example of why you NEED the spring rates. I personally will never own an apple product because I will not be married to apple and all that they require for services and all that. if you do go to a shock company that's worth it's ass and they can pick custom spring rates. and then choose because of conveince to have a closer shop do some tuning with ST springs they are not going to have the baseline to start from and IF they have a shock dyno you are now paying for the labor to find out spring rates you should already have. No bashing, it's just the facts.
Thats why I waited until my car was in its for sure final state before I'm doing shocks and springs.

Nothing will change my car for weight or accessories from this point on. So if ST hits it right, I personally don't care what my rates are nor will I ever try to figure it out.

But I see what you're saying. Makes sense.
 

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Thats why I waited until my car was in its for sure final state before I'm doing shocks and springs.

Nothing will change my car for weight or accessories from this point on. So if ST hits it right, I personally don't care what my rates are nor will I ever try to figure it out.

But I see what you're saying. Makes sense.
In your case 100% agree that knowing the rates is not as important. You know you are having ST valve your shocks and they will know what they used if there is any need for an adjustment or update.
 

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It seams fairly simple to me, if you don't plan on using ST for shock tuning then don't use their springs. If you do plan on using ST for shock tuning then do use their springs. It seams pretty rare that people are unhappy with Eibach or ST springs and you probably can't go wrong regardless what you choose.
 

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If you dont plan on valving get any spring kit you chose,ST, eibach, zbros... If you plan on valving in the future talk to the shop that you plan to use and get springs from them. I went ST springs and am very impressed with the improvement, i do plan to have them revalve at some point in the future

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It seams fairly simple to me, if you don't plan on using ST for shock tuning then don't use their springs. If you do plan on using ST for shock tuning then do use their springs. It seams pretty rare that people are unhappy with Eibach or ST springs and you probably can't go wrong regardless what you choose.
Exactly, the point I was trying to make. If you plan to go with ST springs its extremely likely you will also go with ST for valving...hence knowing the rates isn't near as important as they do that for you. If you don't then obviously you will know the rates with most other suppliers. I guess the semantics for some is far too difficult whereas 90% of consumers don't even know how to properly calculate the final rate of a dual rate spring kit.

I would never understand a scenario that user buys ST springs but then decides to go with CT for valving and pays extra for shock dynoing? This small percentage situations still don't warrant anything overly valuable. I guess it's the same analogy mentioned about of not wanting an Apple product, many don't for various reasons but you can't refute the fact they are market and industry leaders.
 

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A good analogy for the Suspension Shops and tuners is a restaurant. It’s all about choices, and deciding what’s just acceptable and good enough, or spending a little more and going the distance for what may be better for oneself.

Some May choose to drive further, and maybe pay a little more for the quaint small 3 or 4 table place where you get to chat with the actual owner (chef) and get a bit more customer service And or quality? Or eat at the bigger place with bigger name and 20 plus tables and with many hired hands? But hey! They have a bigger food list with more choices with a fancy menu too, right?
Who wouldnt dig all that fluff?

These are the two extremes of course, and nothing wrong with either choice. The choices are up to the owners and the owners only for what works best for themselve.

The big restaurants are popular and attract lots of customers and Business. That is the business plan.
While others may decide to stay smaller and more quaint to service a smaller few people at a time that enjoy a different level of personal service and quality.

The fun part is the owner driver has lots of choices to pick what works the best for them.

The little restaurant may take a few weeks or longer to make a table reservation because they serve a lesser few. While the larger may be more easier to get served sooner and even have take out orders?

Its funny that we could be having the same Conversation about everyone’s favorite restaurant!
but here, it’s about everyone’s choices on Suspension shops. No wrong or right answers here, just get out and try to “sample“ all the foods, and eat up what is felt tastes the best for what the owner is looking for.

But remember, most people have only eaten or sampled at one or two of all the popular restaurants. And if they have not eaten or received service from any of these other restaurants, then it really isn’t fair to make Comparisons or judgments about what they dont know!
If they are totally happy with the restaurant they eat at? and feel no other sampling is necessary, Then that’s fine too, and that’s all that matters For that owner.

But, in the big overall picture, “some” People like to claim, but actually don’t know what they don’t know.

But in the smaller picture, being happy with where they eat is What’s important.

Moto on
 
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