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Then install dirt bike or 1 ton truck springs on your machine. I’m sure your valving will handle it just fine. Lol. Smoke another bowl.
Now you're just being ridiculous to defend your butt buddy.

No one said they didn't have to be the appropriate size THEY DO NOT CONTROL THE SUSPENSION.

ASK ANY SHOCK TUNER THEY SAY THAT EXACT PHRASE!!!!!

You syrup suckers know less about suspension and off-road than Biden knows about being President.

Tim
 

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No it's not that complicated. But Eibach has like 3 spring kits. And ST has like 30+ spring kits for X3.

They are able to dial it in far more accurately for your car. We can have the exact same car but mine weighs 1700 and yours weights 2100 depending on accessories we have. Also where the weight is placed on the car like high mounted spare tires. And also your type of riding.

More options = more dialed in. Simple as that.

Nobody has done more testing on cars than ST. Period. Anyone here who thinks they know better with very little exception is sadly mistaken.

You want to go to a shoe store with 3 pairs of shoes? Or 33 pairs of shoes?
When you have a ride like mine you need 50 shoes to work from. The ST upgrades I did raised me up 4 inches. Suspension started out really stiff, but I told them I wanted it to ride best when heavily fully loaded. Started out really stiff when I was first driving it by myself, and now ride height went down an inch and ride smoothed up a lot. I am happy with the results.
 

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Now you're just being ridiculous to defend your butt buddy.

No one said they didn't have to be the appropriate size THEY DO NOT CONTROL THE SUSPENSION.

ASK ANY SHOCK TUNER THEY SAY THAT EXACT PHRASE!!!!!

You syrup suckers know less about suspension and off-road than Biden knows about being President.

Tim
Font Smile News Publication Movie
 

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Now you're just being ridiculous to defend your butt buddy.

No one said they didn't have to be the appropriate size THEY DO NOT CONTROL THE SUSPENSION.

ASK ANY SHOCK TUNER THEY SAY THAT EXACT PHRASE!!!!!

You syrup suckers know less about suspension and off-road than Biden knows about being President.

Tim
Haha. Y’all just lucky us syrup suckers sent you our CanAms to play with or you would all be stuck with your proud American Polaris fireballs.

Anyway, in my case the aftermarket cross-over springs were a very noticeable upgrade from the single springs on my Maverick Sport XXC. The little chatter over rocks disappeared and the machine now flies straight with no rear end kickup. The springs-only package was half the money and half the performance increase of sending my shocks in to be reworked. I ride every weekend and didn’t want to loose 4-8 rides and spend twice the cash. I’m happy.
 

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Haha. Y’all just lucky us syrup suckers sent you our CanAms to play with or you would all be stuck with your proud American Polaris fireballs.

Anyway, in my case the aftermarket cross-over springs were a very noticeable upgrade from the single springs on my Maverick Sport XXC. The little chatter over rocks disappeared and the machine now flies straight with no rear end kickup. The springs-only package was half the money and half the performance increase of sending my shocks in to be reworked. I ride every weekend and didn’t want to loose 4-8 rides and spend twice the cash. I’m happy.
I think the thanks should be the other way around, If it were not for all the other nations purchasing BRP Products, your faithful leader Justin would have to bail BRP out again and they would have to sell them products to Canadians at even more of a price then they already Doo

:)

It is astounding how much more Canadians pay for BRP Products, almost seems unfair.
 

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I think the thanks should be the other way around, If it were not for all the other nations purchasing BRP Products, your faithful leader Justin would have to bail BRP out again and they would have to sell them to canadians at even more of a mark up then they already Doo

:)

It is astounding how much more Canadians pay for BRP Products, almost seems unfair.

You are probably right, but BRP has never been bailed out. It was the only division of Bombardier that wasn’t in the hole so they created the new BRP company many years ago. The markup sucks but that’s just the exchange rate. There have been lots of other vehicles in the past, like Ford trucks, that were greatly cheaper in Canada after the exchange rate.
 

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You are probably right, but BRP has never been bailed out. It was the only division of Bombardier that wasn’t in the hole so they created the new BRP company many years ago. The markup sucks but that’s just the exchange rate. There have been lots of other vehicles in the past, like Ford trucks, that were greatly cheaper in Canada after the exchange rate.
A few of us would prefer that Ford moved to Canada, somehow I think they would fit in.

All joking aside, it was the aerospace, but when the exchange rates were very close the prices for a snowmobile was 2 - 3k more for Canadians. And BRP did some odd stuff with warrantee so a Canadian could not go to the US and purchase a machine and bring it back.
 

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Why is there such hate for ST? I'm about to purchase a set myself from the simple fact every part I've bought from ST is well engineered and machined, installs perfect first time, and works as intended...this coming from an engineer with a long background in Product Design and MFG. Not that any of that matters but it goes to say is there something I missed about ST to why almost every thread turns into ST is the devil because they don't share rates? Look for $100 extra buy the Eibachs I mean we all spent $30k or more on these machines $100 isn't going to break the bank. I personally have seen a number of aftermarket parts for these cars and generally ST are pretty high quality same as say EVP. I remember when I first got my X3 so many said stay away from EVP they are just a huge company that overcharges blah blah...funny I have a lot of their parts now too...

Also, worth noting every suspension tuner I've spoken to does not like or agree with Eibachs OTS spring kits...hence why they all use their own combos. Some of which they won't share either (but at least you can tell on Eibachs)...So ultimately with simple deductive reasoning spring kits are worthless without valving hence why every shop pushes to do both. So...being if I got ST, MTS, UTVShocks, etc. they are ALL going to valve my shocks for the rates chosen. So WTF does me knowing the rates make any difference? It's not like I'm going to go back to Justin or Tom Morris and say hey man I need 27lbs more springrate on the front right.

Frankly, seems there are a select few on this forum that think they know everything, are professional forum racers because they hit the dunes a few times a year, and want to push some hidden agenda because I guess politics? Unless I can see concrete evidence on why ST springs are "junk", inferior to others, and pics of failing/sagging springs that weren't warrantied I have a hard time believing useless forum slander. Like another poster said, figuring out rates isn't hard whatever so besides not manufacturing a PN on the side of the spring any shock tuner worth a snot can figure out the rate in about 10min. If they can't I'd be a hell of a lot more worried than what the logo says on my springs.
 

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I bought st springs first go around. I hated them, total waste of money. Now keep in mind I did have qs3 shocks at the time which suck also. They were cheaper that’s the way I went. I then bought new bypass shocks and installed eibach springs. Of course it road better with the better shocks but the difference it made with the eibach was very noticeable unlike the st springs. I don’t believe st is a good east coast tuner . They may be good for dunes and desert but from everything if read there are better options to look into. I literally know no one who has shock therapy around here. Most go with ct . There’s unlimited threads on shocks on here take a day or two and read . Make your decision and hope for the best


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Sigh...

I’ll make this as concise as possible.

So the only thing that can do the job of holding the rig up is the spring.

If it’s heavier, you need to increase preload. Too much and you have to go up in spring rate. For the setups I do, more than one inch of preload in the main spring calls for a stiffer spring. Less than 3/16” and I go lighter.

Your springs get ride height. Multi rate springs work in tandem with compression and rebound, but all they do is set a given height at the end of the day. Valving just changes the rate at which you return to zero. Stiffer springs require less compression and more rebound damping. Bypass has to flow more for stiffer springs.

You cannot avoid these principles. This is not some arcane knowledge.

Springs get to ride height. Multi-rate springs alter quite a few things but at the end of the day, you can’t speak on behalf of the pros if you don’t speak their language. “Leave it to the pros” and “the pros do x so x is better” is direct evidence of a logical fallacy.

I don’t like kits and never have because kits are too generalized and target too generic of an audience. Same thing with new riders buying the exhaust with the coolest ad in the magazine and think they’re the shit; they don’t know and think they do, but we all know and just keep our mouth shut because it isn’t worth the time.

If you can’t spout off trigonometric values or give caster suggestions with nothing but tire size and available up travel off the top of your head, you probably aren’t qualified to legitimately argue a point in suspension.


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I bought st springs first go around. I hated them, total waste of money. Now keep in mind I did have qs3 shocks at the time which suck also. They were cheaper that’s the way I went. I then bought new bypass shocks and installed eibach springs. Of course it road better with the better shocks but the difference it made with the eibach was very noticeable unlike the st springs. I don’t believe st is a good east coast tuner . They may be good for dunes and desert but from everything if read there are better options to look into. I literally know no one who has shock therapy around here. Most go with ct . There’s unlimited threads on shocks on here take a day or two and read . Make your decision and hope for the best


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Tell me more. I’m an East Coast guy and in the idea stages of looking.

I will not be having internals done. Just looking for a new set of springs for the X3.
 

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Sigh...

I’ll make this as concise as possible.

So the only thing that can do the job of holding the rig up is the spring.

If it’s heavier, you need to increase preload. Too much and you have to go up in spring rate. For the setups I do, more than one inch of preload in the main spring calls for a stiffer spring. Less than 3/16” and I go lighter.

Your springs get ride height. Multi rate springs work in tandem with compression and rebound, but all they do is set a given height at the end of the day. Valving just changes the rate at which you return to zero. Stiffer springs require less compression and more rebound damping. Bypass has to flow more for stiffer springs.

You cannot avoid these principles. This is not some arcane knowledge.

Springs get to ride height. Multi-rate springs alter quite a few things but at the end of the day, you can’t speak on behalf of the pros if you don’t speak their language. “Leave it to the pros” and “the pros do x so x is better” is direct evidence of a logical fallacy.

I don’t like kits and never have because kits are too generalized and target too generic of an audience. Same thing with new riders buying the exhaust with the coolest ad in the magazine and think they’re the shit; they don’t know and think they do, but we all know and just keep our mouth shut because it isn’t worth the time.

If you can’t spout off trigonometric values or give caster suggestions with nothing but tire size and available up travel off the top of your head, you probably aren’t qualified to legitimately argue a point in suspension.


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You were posting as I replied. Tell me more too. Let’s keep this informative.

Here’s what I know about springs. Someone said fox says adjust this and that to there, so I did. Then I chased preload for ride height ever since and kept my crossover around 2 1/2”. Now my secondary spring has about 2” possible travel and less or none if I make another ride height adjustment.

so I’m definitely due for a new set of springs, and like the OP, I want someone to tell me what I need because I don’t want to spend the time to figure it out on my own. ST or other companies will tell me and sell me something. Or I can buy a set of Eibachs and guess.
 

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Dude what’s with your avatar? Whenever I see you I think of a cranky cross-eyed red head step child. Sorry no offense.
It's... TIMMAY!!! But he's just fuming mad in that pic...

And don't worry about offending me haha it's impossible...

Getting offended is for woke pussies....

Hairstyle Facial expression Cartoon Gesture Art
 

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Sigh...

I’ll make this as concise as possible.

So the only thing that can do the job of holding the rig up is the spring.

If it’s heavier, you need to increase preload. Too much and you have to go up in spring rate. For the setups I do, more than one inch of preload in the main spring calls for a stiffer spring. Less than 3/16” and I go lighter.

Your springs get ride height. Multi rate springs work in tandem with compression and rebound, but all they do is set a given height at the end of the day. Valving just changes the rate at which you return to zero. Stiffer springs require less compression and more rebound damping. Bypass has to flow more for stiffer springs.

You cannot avoid these principles. This is not some arcane knowledge.

Springs get to ride height. Multi-rate springs alter quite a few things but at the end of the day, you can’t speak on behalf of the pros if you don’t speak their language. “Leave it to the pros” and “the pros do x so x is better” is direct evidence of a logical fallacy.

I don’t like kits and never have because kits are too generalized and target too generic of an audience. Same thing with new riders buying the exhaust with the coolest ad in the magazine and think they’re the shit; they don’t know and think they do, but we all know and just keep our mouth shut because it isn’t worth the time.

If you can’t spout off trigonometric values or give caster suggestions with nothing but tire size and available up travel off the top of your head, you probably aren’t qualified to legitimately argue a point in suspension.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You pretty much just argued and debated yourself like Dr. Fauchi.

Originally springs are simple and not complicated. No need for something proprietary.

Now say you don't like kits because they are generic. Well, Eibach kits are as generic as it gets pretty much.

And that is the whole point of ST having many more options.

Someone can have the same machine as me and it could weigh 500 pounds more and be set up for dunes. I don't even know if Eibach options would cover that.

This is not Corvettes here where every single car is going to be very close to the same weight. Identical model UTV's vary drastically from person to person.

You say you have all these years experience building chassis or whatever. But don't think you are taking into account different set ups for different terrain. Plus how drastically different 2 of the same model can be after the owner makes it the way they want it with accessories and mods.
 

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Why is there such hate for ST? I'm about to purchase a set myself from the simple fact every part I've bought from ST is well engineered and machined, installs perfect first time, and works as intended...this coming from an engineer with a long background in Product Design and MFG. Not that any of that matters but it goes to say is there something I missed about ST to why almost every thread turns into ST is the devil because they don't share rates? Look for $100 extra buy the Eibachs I mean we all spent $30k or more on these machines $100 isn't going to break the bank. I personally have seen a number of aftermarket parts for these cars and generally ST are pretty high quality same as say EVP. I remember when I first got my X3 so many said stay away from EVP they are just a huge company that overcharges blah blah...funny I have a lot of their parts now too...

Also, worth noting every suspension tuner I've spoken to does not like or agree with Eibachs OTS spring kits...hence why they all use their own combos. Some of which they won't share either (but at least you can tell on Eibachs)...So ultimately with simple deductive reasoning spring kits are worthless without valving hence why every shop pushes to do both. So...being if I got ST, MTS, UTVShocks, etc. they are ALL going to valve my shocks for the rates chosen. So WTF does me knowing the rates make any difference? It's not like I'm going to go back to Justin or Tom Morris and say hey man I need 27lbs more springrate on the front right.

Frankly, seems there are a select few on this forum that think they know everything, are professional forum racers because they hit the dunes a few times a year, and want to push some hidden agenda because I guess politics? Unless I can see concrete evidence on why ST springs are "junk", inferior to others, and pics of failing/sagging springs that weren't warrantied I have a hard time believing useless forum slander. Like another poster said, figuring out rates isn't hard whatever so besides not manufacturing a PN on the side of the spring any shock tuner worth a snot can figure out the rate in about 10min. If they can't I'd be a hell of a lot more worried than what the logo says on my springs.
Okay that is some drama queen shiat right there.

I have seen NO ONE say they hate ST nor that the parts are not quality, they sag or whatever else your alleging. please point me to the perpetrators.

The contention is that some on here and apparently now you included think ST is the only choice.


UTV shocks, Tom Morris like you mentioned is quite capable and as a matter of fact one of the best if not the best hands on guy.

Lets be clear here my Sandcar was built by Justin. I have known him for a 20 years back when he owned Predator sand cars 1999, then Revenge Racing, 2003 and beyond, iI can say not many know as much as he does.

I have spent a lot of time talking with various shock tuners , Danny Foddrill , Justin, kevin Mcmullen to name a few.

So the just because uou hit the dunes is another drama statement. While I'm not an expert i have made a point of learning some about off road suspension and have had a long travel sandcar since 2000.

While ST is very good, I chose Tom because I get the owner doing my shocks, if Justin were doing them himself I would have taken it to him very likley.

To alleged there is some " vast right wing conspiracy " ( hope you get that funny) is just as ridiculous as when that statement made the news.

Tim
 
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Okay that is some drama queen shiat right there.

I have seen NO ONE say they hate ST nor that the parts are not quality, they sag or whatever else your alleging. please point me to the perpetrators.

The contention is that some on here and apparently now you included think ST is the only choice.


UTV shocks, Tom Morris like you mentioned is quite capable and as a matter of fact one of the best if not the best hands on guy.

Lets be clear here my Sandcar was built by Justin. I have known him for a 20 years back when he owned Predator sand cars 1999, then Revenge Racing, 2003 and beyond, iI can say not many know as much as he does.

I have spent a lot of time talking with various shock tuners , Danny Foddrill , Justin, kevin Mcmullen to name a few.

So the just because uou hit the dunes is another drama statement. While I'm not an expert i have made a point of learning some about off road suspension and have had a long travel sandcar since 2000.

While ST is very good, I chose Tom because I get the owner doing my shocks, if Justin were doing them himself I would have taken it to him very likley.

To alleged there is some " vast right wing conspiracy " ( hope you get that funny) is just as ridiculous as when that statement made the news.

Tim
Who said ST is the only choice?

Point me to the perpetrators...
 

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You pretty much just argued and debated yourself like Dr. Fauchi.

Originally springs are simple and not complicated. No need for something proprietary.

Now say you don't like kits because they are generic. Well, Eibach kits are as generic as it gets pretty much.

And that is the whole point of ST having many more options.

Someone can have the same machine as me and it could weigh 500 pounds more and be set up for dunes. I don't even know if Eibach options would cover that.

This is not Corvettes here where every single car is going to be very close to the same weight. Identical model UTV's vary drastically from person to person.

You say you have all these years experience building chassis or whatever. But don't think you are taking into account different set ups for different terrain. Plus how drastically different 2 of the same model can be after the owner makes it the way they want it with accessories and mods.
Since your WHOLE argument is based on all these alleged varying weights... what does your car weigh?

How much does SS's car weigh?

I mean surely they mist have the exacy weight to get the appropriate spring package right ?

Tim
 

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Since your WHOLE argument is based on all these alleged varying weights... what does your car weigh?

How much does SS's car weigh?

I mean surely they mist have the exacy weight to get the appropriate spring package right ?

Tim
I will let you know when I scale it in the next 2 or 3 weeks.
 

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