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As far as value for the $ wether it's ST or Eibach, yes it's worth it. Cheap upgrade for what you get.

I personally don't care what the rate is. They ST has far more knowledge than me or anybody on this site really.
 

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I wouldn’t buy something as simple as a spring with a proprietary design. Suspension isn’t THAT complicated.

Seems like they found a range where the spring rate matches the valving a little better and that’s about it. If you ever decide to upgrade from there, that spring may not be what you need. I’d look elsewhere.


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No it's not that complicated. But Eibach has like 3 spring kits. And ST has like 30+ spring kits for X3.

They are able to dial it in far more accurately for your car. We can have the exact same car but mine weighs 1700 and yours weights 2100 depending on accessories we have. Also where the weight is placed on the car like high mounted spare tires. And also your type of riding.

More options = more dialed in. Simple as that.

Nobody has done more testing on cars than ST. Period. Anyone here who thinks they know better with very little exception is sadly mistaken.

You want to go to a shoe store with 3 pairs of shoes? Or 33 pairs of shoes?
 

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I feel pretty confident the Rube Goldberg machine is more hype than fact.

I do NOT buy they have "30 spring kits"

They do not tell what the rates are so guys like you keep making bigger claims than what really exist.

Tim
They have different part #'s that can be combined in different combinations. Way more than Eibach has.

If I took the time for all the R&D I wouldn't be posting a spread sheet of my findings either.
 

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Before you try to start a pissing match, I’ll just tell you up front that you don’t have to waste time trying to explaining suspension to me.

30 spring kits are not necessary. The valving is far more important.


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Nothing to really piss about.

Thats how many Eibach has. And that's how many ST has.

If you're under the impression ST is a sneaky lieing deceitful company by all means do not give them the buisness.

But keep in mind the range of weights on these cars on the forum goes from about 1700lbs all the way up to 3000 lbs. And that's on very different terrain, driving styles, and conditions. From mud, to desert, to trail, dunes, and everything in between.
 

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The springs just hold up the car, The valving is what controls it all....

Tim

That goes right back to post # 4. ST maches the valving.

I'm not saying Eibach is bad by any means. If you're just getting springs within Eibachs range with no valving then for sure a good option.

Want to go the extra mile get ST to do valving is and springs for your specific terrain.

Both good choices. Plus I've seen Eibach logos on ST racecars lol.
 

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Now you're just being ridiculous to defend your butt buddy.

No one said they didn't have to be the appropriate size THEY DO NOT CONTROL THE SUSPENSION.

ASK ANY SHOCK TUNER THEY SAY THAT EXACT PHRASE!!!!!

You syrup suckers know less about suspension and off-road than Biden knows about being President.

Tim
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Dude what’s with your avatar? Whenever I see you I think of a cranky cross-eyed red head step child. Sorry no offense.
It's... TIMMAY!!! But he's just fuming mad in that pic...

And don't worry about offending me haha it's impossible...

Getting offended is for woke pussies....

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Sigh...

I’ll make this as concise as possible.

So the only thing that can do the job of holding the rig up is the spring.

If it’s heavier, you need to increase preload. Too much and you have to go up in spring rate. For the setups I do, more than one inch of preload in the main spring calls for a stiffer spring. Less than 3/16” and I go lighter.

Your springs get ride height. Multi rate springs work in tandem with compression and rebound, but all they do is set a given height at the end of the day. Valving just changes the rate at which you return to zero. Stiffer springs require less compression and more rebound damping. Bypass has to flow more for stiffer springs.

You cannot avoid these principles. This is not some arcane knowledge.

Springs get to ride height. Multi-rate springs alter quite a few things but at the end of the day, you can’t speak on behalf of the pros if you don’t speak their language. “Leave it to the pros” and “the pros do x so x is better” is direct evidence of a logical fallacy.

I don’t like kits and never have because kits are too generalized and target too generic of an audience. Same thing with new riders buying the exhaust with the coolest ad in the magazine and think they’re the shit; they don’t know and think they do, but we all know and just keep our mouth shut because it isn’t worth the time.

If you can’t spout off trigonometric values or give caster suggestions with nothing but tire size and available up travel off the top of your head, you probably aren’t qualified to legitimately argue a point in suspension.


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You pretty much just argued and debated yourself like Dr. Fauchi.

Originally springs are simple and not complicated. No need for something proprietary.

Now say you don't like kits because they are generic. Well, Eibach kits are as generic as it gets pretty much.

And that is the whole point of ST having many more options.

Someone can have the same machine as me and it could weigh 500 pounds more and be set up for dunes. I don't even know if Eibach options would cover that.

This is not Corvettes here where every single car is going to be very close to the same weight. Identical model UTV's vary drastically from person to person.

You say you have all these years experience building chassis or whatever. But don't think you are taking into account different set ups for different terrain. Plus how drastically different 2 of the same model can be after the owner makes it the way they want it with accessories and mods.
 

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Okay that is some drama queen shiat right there.

I have seen NO ONE say they hate ST nor that the parts are not quality, they sag or whatever else your alleging. please point me to the perpetrators.

The contention is that some on here and apparently now you included think ST is the only choice.


UTV shocks, Tom Morris like you mentioned is quite capable and as a matter of fact one of the best if not the best hands on guy.

Lets be clear here my Sandcar was built by Justin. I have known him for a 20 years back when he owned Predator sand cars 1999, then Revenge Racing, 2003 and beyond, iI can say not many know as much as he does.

I have spent a lot of time talking with various shock tuners , Danny Foddrill , Justin, kevin Mcmullen to name a few.

So the just because uou hit the dunes is another drama statement. While I'm not an expert i have made a point of learning some about off road suspension and have had a long travel sandcar since 2000.

While ST is very good, I chose Tom because I get the owner doing my shocks, if Justin were doing them himself I would have taken it to him very likley.

To alleged there is some " vast right wing conspiracy " ( hope you get that funny) is just as ridiculous as when that statement made the news.

Tim
Who said ST is the only choice?

Point me to the perpetrators...
 

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Since your WHOLE argument is based on all these alleged varying weights... what does your car weigh?

How much does SS's car weigh?

I mean surely they mist have the exacy weight to get the appropriate spring package right ?

Tim
I will let you know when I scale it in the next 2 or 3 weeks.
 

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You already did your shocks ?

Tim
No they are originals still.

I think about 1650 is probably close depending on how much fuel is in it.

See how close my guess is soon. Can't see it being much over 1700.
 

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😂😂😂

Spoken like a true drama queen! 😂

Thanks for the laugh sweetheart!😘

Tim
Where does the MOST drama come from on the whole forum? By far?

Nothing but attacking people non stop. Bashing nationalities. Constant insults and arrogance.

You've called me mentally ill on here who knows how many times. But yeah I dunno man.

You are pretty damn....

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I can't believe your ass wasn't turfed out of here off the forum long ago.

You are useless.
 

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I think thats a personal attack?

Tim
There no other way to put it.

You rarely help anyone. Or contribute anything.

Virtually useless.

I have no intention of going punch for punch with you as far as slinging rude insults. That's how I maybe acted up to about grade 10.

All I'm doing is using humor and having fun with an absolutely retarded situation.
 

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Maybe even beyond useless to the point of harmful.

You've gotten so much stuff deleted on the forum the past few weeks. Because you just can't shut up.

So that is actually a liability to the forum.
 

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To the OP - if you intend on doing some valving then pick a shock tuner and use the springs they recommend.

As stated the magic is in the valving if you truly want the best ride. I did a step by step process on my shock set up on my old X3. There is a thread on here somewhere.

I started off with just a spring kit, which was a big improvement for the dunes. The spring kit did very little when I hit the hard pack. Next step was some valving changes in the compression adjuster which helped and then ended up doing the full valve job. I have used two different shock tuners on my old X3. The second guy Tom Morris worked wonders on my shocks. So much so I am used him again on my new X3.

I had Shock Therapy on my XP1000. They did the full work and it rode awesome.

My suggestion is talk to the shock tuners you maybe interested in and the conversation will lead you to the one you want touching your shocks.


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100% useful 👍
 

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You pay someone to make your decisions and people pay me to make theirs, yet here you are.

You made your point the first time. It was just wrong.

All this talk about weight and literally no other concrete data to figure it out? Seems like you should come run this joint over here for a while.

Tell you what, I’ve got a set of knuckles with a 16 degree KPI, center of hub located 5/16” above KPI center, and 2-3/32” from kpi center to face of hub. Customer wants 30” tires and does mostly high speed hard packed clay trails. What should be the scrub radius target and what offset rims do I need to get there?


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What did I say that is wrong?
 

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Lol, damn!
2 seater weighs at least 1850 ill bet
64 XDS is about 1500 of the showroom floor. That's around 150 lighter than a 72".

And I don't have that much stuff on it. I do my best to keep weight down. Tires, rims, and front winch and bumper are the vast majority of the weight I've added. Has intrusion bars for deer lol but they are pretty light. Oh yeah and shock tower brace and gusset kit.

ST rack as well but only a pound or 2 heavier than a stock rack.

We will see soon enough..
 

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All I can say is this thread got out of hand pretty fast !

If you read my post I did not bash Shock Therapy and I did not insult anyone in any way.

The simple fact is ST might have 10 thousand different springs available that are all top quality and won’t ever sag or break but if you are considering a spring replacement ONLY, like the OP first suggested in the post, going with a set that has unknown rates will handicap him if he decides later on to do valving for a complete upgrade, unless he chooses ST for the valving.

All shock tuners will need that information to make an informed decision on how to re-valve for the particular customer’s car and the terrain he rides in. I simply stated a fact and left my opinion out of it. The post was concise and truthful and gave a nod to the gentleman that helped me out with my car, nothing more. While no one debates the fact that tuning a suspension for a particular car involves multiple factors and requires some specialized knowledge, every tune requires some baseline information to be done properly. Known spring lengths and rates are just one factor.

Seems to me personally that this thread got off the rails quickly for no good reason other than “someone said something bad about a company or person I like so I have to defend them”. I didn’t and you don’t.

By all means keep bashing each other as you see fit but in the end, it’s not helping the OP and I mistakenly thought this forum was a great place for knowledge and experience to help those who might not have that in regards to their car. I’d hope I’m correct and not disappointed. Have a great day !
I don't think you were the cause of anything.

I don't think anyone thought you were bashing ST. I didn't...
 
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