Can-Am Maverick Forum banner
1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,269 Posts
No it's not that complicated. But Eibach has like 3 spring kits. And ST has like 30+ spring kits for X3.

They are able to dial it in far more accurately for your car. We can have the exact same car but mine weighs 1700 and yours weights 2100 depending on accessories we have. Also where the weight is placed on the car like high mounted spare tires. And also your type of riding.

More options = more dialed in. Simple as that.

Nobody has done more testing on cars than ST. Period. Anyone here who thinks they know better with very little exception is sadly mistaken.

You want to go to a shoe store with 3 pairs of shoes? Or 33 pairs of shoes?
I feel pretty confident the Rube Goldberg machine is more hype than fact.

I do NOT buy they have "30 spring kits"

They do not tell what the rates are so guys like you keep making bigger claims than what really exist.

Tim
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,269 Posts
Then install dirt bike or 1 ton truck springs on your machine. I’m sure your valving will handle it just fine. Lol. Smoke another bowl.
Now you're just being ridiculous to defend your butt buddy.

No one said they didn't have to be the appropriate size THEY DO NOT CONTROL THE SUSPENSION.

ASK ANY SHOCK TUNER THEY SAY THAT EXACT PHRASE!!!!!

You syrup suckers know less about suspension and off-road than Biden knows about being President.

Tim
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,269 Posts
Why is there such hate for ST? I'm about to purchase a set myself from the simple fact every part I've bought from ST is well engineered and machined, installs perfect first time, and works as intended...this coming from an engineer with a long background in Product Design and MFG. Not that any of that matters but it goes to say is there something I missed about ST to why almost every thread turns into ST is the devil because they don't share rates? Look for $100 extra buy the Eibachs I mean we all spent $30k or more on these machines $100 isn't going to break the bank. I personally have seen a number of aftermarket parts for these cars and generally ST are pretty high quality same as say EVP. I remember when I first got my X3 so many said stay away from EVP they are just a huge company that overcharges blah blah...funny I have a lot of their parts now too...

Also, worth noting every suspension tuner I've spoken to does not like or agree with Eibachs OTS spring kits...hence why they all use their own combos. Some of which they won't share either (but at least you can tell on Eibachs)...So ultimately with simple deductive reasoning spring kits are worthless without valving hence why every shop pushes to do both. So...being if I got ST, MTS, UTVShocks, etc. they are ALL going to valve my shocks for the rates chosen. So WTF does me knowing the rates make any difference? It's not like I'm going to go back to Justin or Tom Morris and say hey man I need 27lbs more springrate on the front right.

Frankly, seems there are a select few on this forum that think they know everything, are professional forum racers because they hit the dunes a few times a year, and want to push some hidden agenda because I guess politics? Unless I can see concrete evidence on why ST springs are "junk", inferior to others, and pics of failing/sagging springs that weren't warrantied I have a hard time believing useless forum slander. Like another poster said, figuring out rates isn't hard whatever so besides not manufacturing a PN on the side of the spring any shock tuner worth a snot can figure out the rate in about 10min. If they can't I'd be a hell of a lot more worried than what the logo says on my springs.
Okay that is some drama queen shiat right there.

I have seen NO ONE say they hate ST nor that the parts are not quality, they sag or whatever else your alleging. please point me to the perpetrators.

The contention is that some on here and apparently now you included think ST is the only choice.


UTV shocks, Tom Morris like you mentioned is quite capable and as a matter of fact one of the best if not the best hands on guy.

Lets be clear here my Sandcar was built by Justin. I have known him for a 20 years back when he owned Predator sand cars 1999, then Revenge Racing, 2003 and beyond, iI can say not many know as much as he does.

I have spent a lot of time talking with various shock tuners , Danny Foddrill , Justin, kevin Mcmullen to name a few.

So the just because uou hit the dunes is another drama statement. While I'm not an expert i have made a point of learning some about off road suspension and have had a long travel sandcar since 2000.

While ST is very good, I chose Tom because I get the owner doing my shocks, if Justin were doing them himself I would have taken it to him very likley.

To alleged there is some " vast right wing conspiracy " ( hope you get that funny) is just as ridiculous as when that statement made the news.

Tim
 
  • Like
Reactions: JDBPFLYER

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,269 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,269 Posts
You pretty much just argued and debated yourself like Dr. Fauchi.

Originally springs are simple and not complicated. No need for something proprietary.

Now say you don't like kits because they are generic. Well, Eibach kits are as generic as it gets pretty much.

And that is the whole point of ST having many more options.

Someone can have the same machine as me and it could weigh 500 pounds more and be set up for dunes. I don't even know if Eibach options would cover that.

This is not Corvettes here where every single car is going to be very close to the same weight. Identical model UTV's vary drastically from person to person.

You say you have all these years experience building chassis or whatever. But don't think you are taking into account different set ups for different terrain. Plus how drastically different 2 of the same model can be after the owner makes it the way they want it with accessories and mods.
Since your WHOLE argument is based on all these alleged varying weights... what does your car weigh?

How much does SS's car weigh?

I mean surely they mist have the exacy weight to get the appropriate spring package right ?

Tim
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,269 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,269 Posts
Drama queen huh...okay sure.

Since you seem to like to argue in pretty much any meaningful thread and drop your cute little innuendos about politics here goes...

Since you clearly can't read and lack any reasonable comprehension besides what you say is gospel here goes. I gave a statement about how I felt general ST parts are of good quality. I gave simple reasoning why some are too hung up on knowing the rates vs needing shock tuning regardless, e.g., you likely won't buy springs from ST then turn around and go to MTS for tuning. Lastly, I then spoke to actually knowing the rates shouldn't necessarily being a sticking point because any decent shock tuner will be able to figure that out, in the event you wanted to use ST springs with another shock tuner. Which again doesn't make sense. The whole point being I don't understand some of the negative feedback around ST. I could care less I have owned just about every spring made from every MFG and every vehicle I've owned has had some custom valve or sprung...some better than others.

My "drama" statement about dunes because it seems most the so called "shock experts" on this forum only care about sand, meaning you if that wasn't clear. There are other parts to this country where there are trees and rocks too but you might have to turn left a few times... Just because you can name drop 5 other people and speak back to the 70's and how you got some cool rail cars doesn't mean squat to anybody. Having 8,200 posts just means you spend more time on a keyboard than just about anyone in this thread, they have names for that as well. Did you get a participation trophy for that or you just like being a Premier Member to feel important? I don't know about you but I prefer to actually sit next to meaningful trophies...

I've talked to Tom as well and more than once, doesn't make me a shock expert and it doesn't for you either. People like you wear out a keyboard too much. Unless you run a successful shop that people ACTUALLY go to, have actual meaningful racing career under your belt and trophies to prove something you are another average enthusiast. If you can't handle other peoples opinion they maybe you shouldn't be on a public forum. It's funny you know the people that actually know the difference between their a$$ and their nose, they are actually out riding, racing, testing, doing R&D. You keep that keyboard warm and MAGA hat clean, you might need it someday to get your AARP renewal notice in the mail (y).
😂😂😂

Spoken like a true drama queen! 😂

Thanks for the laugh sweetheart!😘

Tim
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,269 Posts
Out of weed are we...?

Tim
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,269 Posts
I can't believe your ass wasn't turfed out of here off the forum long ago.

You are useless.
I think thats a personal attack?

Tim
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,269 Posts
All I can say is this thread got out of hand pretty fast !

If you read my post I did not bash Shock Therapy and I did not insult anyone in any way.

The simple fact is ST might have 10 thousand different springs available that are all top quality and won’t ever sag or break but if you are considering a spring replacement ONLY, like the OP first suggested in the post, going with a set that has unknown rates will handicap him if he decides later on to do valving for a complete upgrade, unless he chooses ST for the valving.

All shock tuners will need that information to make an informed decision on how to re-valve for the particular customer’s car and the terrain he rides in. I simply stated a fact and left my opinion out of it. The post was concise and truthful and gave a nod to the gentleman that helped me out with my car, nothing more. While no one debates the fact that tuning a suspension for a particular car involves multiple factors and requires some specialized knowledge, every tune requires some baseline information to be done properly. Known spring lengths and rates are just one factor.

Seems to me personally that this thread got off the rails quickly for no good reason other than “someone said something bad about a company or person I like so I have to defend them”. I didn’t and you don’t.

By all means keep bashing each other as you see fit but in the end, it’s not helping the OP and I mistakenly thought this forum was a great place for knowledge and experience to help those who might not have that in regards to their car. I’d hope I’m correct and not disappointed. Have a great day !
You are correct on several points.

Hopefully the thread has some useful information in it for the OP. Tim
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hollywood X3

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,269 Posts
Having the rates for each spring is important for quite a few reasons IF you go through a company that can pick a custom rate setup for your application. For example you call and say hey I am running a 2 seat X3 with a cage, rack tools, stereo and a full size 32" spare on a roof rack. Cool we pick rates specific to that and your to ride specifics. (as much as possible without vavling). You get your spirngs and after a few months you want to go to a 35" tire and your back says F%^K the roof rack so you build a tire hanger to hang the tire off the rear of the car. Knowing all 8 spring rates gives you the information needed by either us or any other good tuner to be able to take that information and up the rates of either the rear lower or upper spring rate depending on initial setup. This is a very simple example of why you NEED the spring rates. I personally will never own an apple product because I will not be married to apple and all that they require for services and all that. if you do go to a shock company that's worth it's ass and they can pick custom spring rates. and then choose because of conveince to have a closer shop do some tuning with ST springs they are not going to have the baseline to start from and IF they have a shock dyno you are now paying for the labor to find out spring rates you should already have. No bashing, it's just the facts.
I had Alex do the shocks on my OG TURBO when they first came out and he was great to work with. I know he has gotten huge since then and does come on here much anymore but it's nice to see you posting even if Alex does not have time.

I and I'm sure others appreciate the insight from guys who do this for a living.

Oh and tell Alex I said hey and I don't hold it against him for switching to team Polaris for his racing team sponsorship...much! 🤣

Tim
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top