[salomon]

So I ordered a belt from the outfitters thinking it would be a good idea to have a spare on hand after reading about all the blown belts.
I ordered over the phone and everything seemed cool. Gave them my address and email.
Never got emailed a receipt or shipping info, but checked bank account and saw they had pulled the money out, which I thought was odd but gave it a week and called back.
The guy on the phone looked it up and said my address was invalid and it got shipped back. I asked why he hadn't called, to which he said, uhhhh.
I asked why he hadn't credited my account back, again the reply was, uhhhh.
Gave him my address again and had it read back. He said he would ship out again. Also asked for an emailed receipt.
Another week goes by, no receipt or shipping info. Called back again and got the same story, got shipped back, no call to me, no credit back to my account.
Keep in mind I was polite the whole time, because chit happens and I know that these companies have a lot of orders to deal with.
Same guy as before says he will try shipping UPS (tells me they have been shipping with post office which explains no shipping info but not receipt).
I give him my address again and hope I have it in time for dunefest (just in case). I also asked once again for a receipt and shipping info.
It comes time to leave for dunefest and guess what, no belt. I figured oh well. If it blows I will hopefully find one there.
I called again on Monday after we get back which is a week and a half after the last time I talked to this guy. At this point I was very agrivated and expressed that in a professional manner. This rockstar raises his voice to ME. WTF?
All I want is my belt or money back. Not that difficult to understand.
He says he will call UPS and call me back, which he does and tells me to expect a call from them.
I get the call and ups gives me an address that isn't even close. I give them the correct one and got it the next day.
Still no receipt.
I will never use these guys again. I can't in good faith reccomend them.

 

[SwerveOffRoad]

So I ordered a belt from the outfitters thinking it would be a good idea to have a spare on hand after reading about all the blown belts.
I ordered over the phone and everything seemed cool. Gave them my address and email.
Never got emailed a receipt or shipping info, but checked bank account and saw they had pulled the money out, which I thought was odd but gave it a week and called back.
The guy on the phone looked it up and said my address was invalid and it got shipped back. I asked why he hadn't called, to which he said, uhhhh.
I asked why he hadn't credited my account back, again the reply was, uhhhh.
Gave him my address again and had it read back. He said he would ship out again. Also asked for an emailed receipt.
Another week goes by, no receipt or shipping info. Called back again and got the same story, got shipped back, no call to me, no credit back to my account.
Keep in mind I was polite the whole time, because chit happens and I know that these companies have a lot of orders to deal with.
Same guy as before says he will try shipping UPS (tells me they have been shipping with post office which explains no shipping info but not receipt).
I give him my address again and hope I have it in time for dunefest (just in case). I also asked once again for a receipt and shipping info.
It comes time to leave for dunefest and guess what, no belt. I figured oh well. If it blows I will hopefully find one there.
I called again on Monday after we get back which is a week and a half after the last time I talked to this guy. At this point I was very agrivated and expressed that in a professional manner. This rockstar raises his voice to ME. WTF?
All I want is my belt or money back. Not that difficult to understand.
He says he will call UPS and call me back, which he does and tells me to expect a call from them.
I get the call and ups gives me an address that isn't even close. I give them the correct one and got it the next day.
Still no receipt.
I will never use these guys again. I can't in good faith reccomend them.

Sorry to hear your issues with ATV Outfitters. I on the other hand ordered mine on Monday and got it Wednesday. I have always had good service with them and have used them several times.

 

[salomon]

That is good to hear, like I said I was very patient cause chit happens.

 

[heavysledz]

Sorry to hear about your misfortune. I will definetly keep that in mind if/when it comes time to buy parts.

 

[LBSwank]

May I ask why u wanted to go with that belt, is it a better belt than others?

 

[Curz]

that sucks

Why are these belts being replaced so quickly? Whats the recommended interval to replace them?

 

[maverickmn]

I ordered belts and never got a thing from them. They claimed later they sent them out again, and that too never happened. These guys are not on the up and up it would seem. They responded to me like they were going to take care of it, but I never got my belts nor my money back. I ordered elsewhere and get everything within days.

 

[salomon]

May I ask why u wanted to go with that belt, is it a better belt than others?

The price is good for a back up belt

 

[salomon]

I ordered belts and never got a thing from them. They claimed later they sent them out again, and that too never happened. These guys are not on the up and up it would seem. They responded to me like they were going to take care of it, but I never got my belts nor my money back. I ordered elsewhere and get everything within days.

Don't stop calling until u get it resolved. Money back or belt in hand.

 

[heavysledz]

The price is good for a back up belt

Has anyone run one of these for any period of time yet to see how well the hold up and how long they last as compared to the OEM belt?

 

[maverickmn]

Ended up paying $300 for 2 Can-Am belts...blah. But maybe I'll figure something else out. They must have something I want if they ever work with me on it.

 

[atvo]

To the original poster: Hi, This is Matthew from ATV Outifitters. Can you give me your name (feel free to PM me or call me at 864-630-RIDE if you don't want to post it publicly). I apologize that there is an issue, but I am not aware of what happened with your case and I want to get to the bottom of what happened for you and see what I can do or what we can do differently next time. I just don't know where to start without knowing who you are.
Thanks in advance.

On the other poster MaverickMN (he was the one that told me there was a thread here where quote: "You guys are getting roasted currently. "
Here is where that situation stands:
The first shipment we don't know what happened with it and it's working it's way through the claims process at USPS. It does not show it was delivered, but we have confirmation it was processed on our end so either it just got lost from here to the truck or the label was damaged and it just got sent to some sort of "dead letter" office. In any case we have nothing showing it was delivered so we understand the issue there from the customer's perspective. Even though we normally wait to get at least an inclination that the first shipment is indeed lost via the shipper which indicates we will get a claim processed and paid for eventually, we went ahead and reshipped the order to him. I have provided that tracking # and it shows it was delivered on 7/29. Now, my question is this: I have sent out 4 belts to the same customer, and have only been paid for two. I have confirmation of delivery on the second shipment. Yet I am being told that I should just eat that cost as well and refund the customer by him since he does not have it, even though it shows it's been delivered. I am discussing this with him via email currently, but I am just not sure why he feels we are the bad guys when it's clearly showing USPS has the item and they show it was delivered. I got a new wireless home phone last year that stopped working about a week after I got it. I did not kick the UPS driver in the balls the next time I saw him because he was the one that delivered it to me. I think that works the same way here. If USPS is the one that has apparently "failed" to do their part why am I being told I am the one to blame?

 

[heavysledz]

To the original poster: Hi, This is Matthew from ATV Outifitters. Can you give me your name (feel free to PM me or call me at 864-630-RIDE if you don't want to post it publicly). I apologize that there is an issue, but I am not aware of what happened with your case and I want to get to the bottom of what happened for you and see what I can do or what we can do differently next time. I just don't know where to start without knowing who you are.
Thanks in advance.

On the other poster MaverickMN (he was the one that told me there was a thread here where quote: "You guys are getting roasted currently. "
Here is where that situation stands:
The first shipment we don't know what happened with it and it's working it's way through the claims process at USPS. It does not show it was delivered, but we have confirmation it was processed on our end so either it just got lost from here to the truck or the label was damaged and it just got sent to some sort of "dead letter" office. In any case we have nothing showing it was delivered so we understand the issue there from the customer's perspective. Even though we normally wait to get at least an inclination that the first shipment is indeed lost via the shipper which indicates we will get a claim processed and paid for eventually, we went ahead and reshipped the order to him. I have provided that tracking # and it shows it was delivered on 7/29. Now, my question is this: I have sent out 4 belts to the same customer, and have only been paid for two. I have confirmation of delivery on the second shipment. Yet I am being told that I should just eat that cost as well and refund the customer by him since he does not have it, even though it shows it's been delivered. I am discussing this with him via email currently, but I am just not sure why he feels we are the bad guys when it's clearly showing USPS has the item and they show it was delivered. I got a new wireless home phone last year that stopped working about a week after I got it. I did not kick the UPS driver in the balls the next time I saw him because he was the one that delivered it to me. I think that works the same way here. If USPS is the one that has apparently "failed" to do their part why am I being told I am the one to blame?

Simply put...because you are the supplier "the customer is always right" even when they are wrong. I work in the semiconductor industry where we sell equipment and parts that cost in excess of $10M. I understand this is not the same but the philosophy should be no different. If the customer pays you for a product and he does not receive it, it is not his fault that it got lost or misdirected from point A to point B. The seller owns that item until it has been received by the buyer and should be responsible for any mix ups that occur during the shipping process.

I would highly recommend that you switch to FedEx or UPS for your shipping needs as you have much better visibility to the shipments throughout the delivery process. And the claims process is light years ahead of the US postal service. However, if you insist on saving the few extra cents using the USPS, you should at least use priority mail and insure it. So that it is trackable from point A to point B and insured for the value of the shipment so the buyer is not SOL if it never arrives or has to wait for the claims process to take place. That should happen behind the scenes and should be the sellers responsability since oyu are the one who arranged the shipping.

We all appreciate you taking the time to come onto the form and explain you side of the story and hope you and the buyer are able to come to an amicable soution to the problem......but I cannot stress enough how important it is to realize that the customer is always right and that customer service will make or break you as a company no matter how good your product is or how much cheaper you may sell it than you competitors.

Also, COMMUNICATION is the key. It sounds like the buyer requested an invoice or reciept on multiple occasions and was never provided one. With today's technology, it is unacceptable to not provide an automated invoice or receipt upon receipt of an order. Every web hosting service out there can provide you with a simple and inexpensive online solution for this.....if you don't have it all ready...look into it.

 

[salomon]

To the original poster: Hi, This is Matthew from ATV Outifitters. Can you give me your name (feel free to PM me or call me at 864-630-RIDE if you don't want to post it publicly). I apologize that there is an issue, but I am not aware of what happened with your case and I want to get to the bottom of what happened for you and see what I can do or what we can do differently next time. I just don't know where to start without knowing who you are.
Thanks in advance.

On the other poster MaverickMN (he was the one that told me there was a thread here where quote: "You guys are getting roasted currently. "
Here is where that situation stands:
The first shipment we don't know what happened with it and it's working it's way through the claims process at USPS. It does not show it was delivered, but we have confirmation it was processed on our end so either it just got lost from here to the truck or the label was damaged and it just got sent to some sort of "dead letter" office. In any case we have nothing showing it was delivered so we understand the issue there from the customer's perspective. Even though we normally wait to get at least an inclination that the first shipment is indeed lost via the shipper which indicates we will get a claim processed and paid for eventually, we went ahead and reshipped the order to him. I have provided that tracking # and it shows it was delivered on 7/29. Now, my question is this: I have sent out 4 belts to the same customer, and have only been paid for two. I have confirmation of delivery on the second shipment. Yet I am being told that I should just eat that cost as well and refund the customer by him since he does not have it, even though it shows it's been delivered. I am discussing this with him via email currently, but I am just not sure why he feels we are the bad guys when it's clearly showing USPS has the item and they show it was delivered. I got a new wireless home phone last year that stopped working about a week after I got it. I did not kick the UPS driver in the balls the next time I saw him because he was the one that delivered it to me. I think that works the same way here. If USPS is the one that has apparently "failed" to do their part why am I being told I am the one to blame?

I will call when I get back from Vegas on Tuesday, but it shouldn't have to come to this. I put down in words exactly what happened. If what I said here is true then what are you prepared to do?
I finally got my belt so as far as I am concerned the issue is resolved, but it shouldn't have to be that hard to get worked out.
Like I said I can't recommend you guys to anyone with a good conscience. In fact I would direct people away from you based on my experience.

 

[atvo]

Simply put...because you are the supplier "the customer is always right" even when they are wrong. I work in the semiconductor industry where we sell equipment and parts that cost in excess of $10M. I understand this is not the same but the philosophy should be no different. If the customer pays you for a product and he does not receive it, it is not his fault that it got lost or misdirected from point A to point B. The seller owns that item until it has been received by the buyer and should be responsible for any mix ups that occur during the shipping process.

I would highly recommend that you switch to FedEx or UPS for your shipping needs as you have much better visibility to the shipments throughout the delivery process. And the claims process is light years ahead of the US postal service. However, if you insist on saving the few extra cents using the USPS, you should at least use priority mail and insure it. So that it is trackable from point A to point B and insured for the value of the shipment so the buyer is not SOL if it never arrives or has to wait for the claims process to take place. That should happen behind the scenes and should be the sellers responsability since oyu are the one who arranged the shipping.

We all appreciate you taking the time to come onto the form and explain you side of the story and hope you and the buyer are able to come to an amicable soution to the problem......but I cannot stress enough how important it is to realize that the customer is always right and that customer service will make or break you as a company no matter how good your product is or how much cheaper you may sell it than you competitors.

Also, COMMUNICATION is the key. It sounds like the buyer requested an invoice or reciept on multiple occasions and was never provided one. With today's technology, it is unacceptable to not provide an automated invoice or receipt upon receipt of an order. Every web hosting service out there can provide you with a simple and inexpensive online solution for this.....if you don't have it all ready...look into it.

Thanks for your input. We did ship with tracking info (USPS Priority). I agree it's not as good as UPS/ FEDEX in some ways, but there are two main reasons we do use them for many smaller items. First is cost. A customer wants the lowest price possible, at least that is almost a commandment in this industry. As a result, if we sent a belt to California to a residence it might make our shipping cost exceed 4 times what it costs with USPS. The customers, at least the vast majority, don't want to pay that and if we are clearing only about $7.00 per belt profit, it's impossible for us to cover it. The second reason is time. If I send something UPS or FedEx it can take 6 business days to some parts of the US depending on how far they are from us. USPS is 3 days max (when they do their job, as certainly does not seem to apply in this case). Also, our system does automatically email an invoice back when an order is placed online. It's all part of the shopping cart system. That being said, sometimes customers enter their email address incorrectly, or they have a spam filter that catches it. It happens multiple times a week with us, but it's not that it was not sent. I have personally sent an invoice 4 times in one day to a customer and the whole time it was being sent to his Spam filter and he did not know it. When a customer places an online order it's all automated and the only time it's really a legitimate problem is when a customer orders via phone and does not provide an email address to us.

 

[heavysledz]

Thanks for your input. We did ship with tracking info (USPS Priority). I agree it's not as good as UPS/ FEDEX in some ways, but there are two main reasons we do use them for many smaller items. First is cost. A customer wants the lowest price possible, at least that is almost a commandment in this industry. As a result, if we sent a belt to California to a residence it might make our shipping cost exceed 4 times what it costs with USPS. The customers, at least the vast majority, don't want to pay that and if we are clearing only about $7.00 per belt profit, it's impossible for us to cover it. The second reason is time. If I send something UPS or FedEx it can take 6 business days to some parts of the US depending on how far they are from us. USPS is 3 days max (when they do their job, as certainly does not seem to apply in this case). Also, our system does automatically email an invoice back when an order is placed online. It's all part of the shopping cart system. That being said, sometimes customers enter their email address incorrectly, or they have a spam filter that catches it. It happens multiple times a week with us, but it's not that it was not sent. I have personally sent an invoice 4 times in one day to a customer and the whole time it was being sent to his Spam filter and he did not know it. When a customer places an online order it's all automated and the only time it's really a legitimate problem is when a customer orders via phone and does not provide an email address to us.

Valid response….thanks for taking the time to clarify.

 

[atvo]

I will call when I get back from Vegas on Tuesday, but it shouldn't have to come to this. I put down in words exactly what happened. If what I said here is true then what are you prepared to do?
I finally got my belt so as far as I am concerned the issue is resolved, but it shouldn't have to be that hard to get worked out.
Like I said I can't recommend you guys to anyone with a good conscience. In fact I would direct people away from you based on my experience.

I agree it shouldn't have to come down to this. I am not calling you a liar so please don't take it that way. As the owner of the company I want to know exactly what happened so if we were wrong in the way we handled it that we could make it right or at least learn how to handle it differently going forward with other customers if we can't "win you back over". We certainly have had some growing pains over the years and we make mistakes. It's sort of like once years ago when my son hit my daughter and I told him to say he was sorry. He did (half-heartedly). Then I asked him if he knew what he was sorry about. If he didn't, he wasn't really sorry and he's pretty likely to do the same thing again so it's important to learn from the mistakes we make, not just talk the talk, so to speak. It's an hour and a half after closing on a Friday night and I am here at my desk trying to get to the bottom of this. I hope that at least shows I care, if nothing else. I would appreciate it if you would take the time to let me know who you are so I can check with who handled the order and hear what they have to say about it, and then do my own fact checking to see why it went wrong. I am not trying to lay blame on you. I am just trying to make sure we are taking care of the people who give us the business that allows me to take care of my family. If I get apathetic about taking care of customers then it all can and will go away. If I have the info I can possibly resolve it with you and if not at least we can try to make sure whatever caused the delay does not happen going forward (assuming it's within our control).

 

[atvo]

PS- I AM GOING HOME. The wife just called and now I have three people mad at me including you two! LOL
I will check in this evening if i don't get too caught up with Gold Rush. (if you don't watch it you won't understand, and even if you do you might still think I am an idiot).

 

[MiMav]

Just a suggestion atvoutfitter,

Signature confirmation is less than $3 and insurance I think would be $3 for 2 belts. You could tack either option onto the price of 2 belts and you would still be the cheapest vendor out there. Best price, delivery dependable and reasonable speed, great product. You can't lose.


By the way, I did purchase my belts from atvoutfitter and had no issues.

 

[atvo]

Just a suggestion atvoutfitter,

Signature confirmation is less than $3 and insurance I think would be $3 for 2 belts. You could tack either option onto the price of 2 belts and you would still be the cheapest vendor out there. Best price, delivery dependable and reasonable speed, great product. You can't lose.


By the way, I did purchase my belts from atvoutfitter and had no issues.

I think you are pretty close on the numbers for cost. Years ago ebay used to let sellers charge extra for insurance and tracking (or signature confirmation). What they found is that virtually no one would pay for it as an option yet would still call and complain when an item was damaged or lost. People want the lowest price. In this industry it's really been proven over and over. I have customers who think on a $800 sale we are making $200-250 and are shocked to learn we made $60 on the net end. That's not the margin for everything, but it's not uncommon on wheel and tire kits. It's trying to balance keeping the price low while still getting the product there undamaged and on time. Unfortunately, this thread reflects 1 case that I am still waiting on the OP to get in touch next week so I can see what happened and therefore do not know what the cause is, and 1 case that obviously is related to USPS making a mistake on the second shipment and possibly us as well (on the first shipment), but it's one out of hundreds of shipments we do in a given week. I know it looks bad from your side, and trust me I HATE IT TOO, but it's also not significant in the scheme of things in regards to it making me feel that we need to totally change the way we ship and who we use. In other words, if you got a 50 pound bag of whole almonds and out of the thousands in the bag a handful were broken (and therefore not "whole" as advertised) when you opened it, would you never buy almonds from that company again? That's how I feel about USPS. They are not perfect, but they do a pretty good job for the money (unless you ask maverickmn!! )
All of the shipping companies make mistakes, and there are guys that who have had items lost or damaged that have not posted here, so it's not like maverickmn is the only one. It's just the one we are dealing with in this discussion (and the OP once I figure out who he is!) I do appreciate the feedback from you guys. It's good to get not only the perspective from the guys like maverickmn who are affected and involved directly with the issue, but also from third parties since feedback is not as common as you would think. We usually get either "you guys ruined my life" when the item did not make it here by XXX date (usually by a guy who orders something with free ground shipping on Dec 24th for a Christmas present!) or "You guys are the best ever and I am going to name my first born "ATV OUTFITTERS", usually by a guy we did nothing out of the ordinary for, so we are pleased, but surprised by the compliment. It's good to just get general feedback on things like this. It's educational and it allows me to explain why we do some of the things we do in case there is a misconception about why we might handle orders in a certain way. I know some vendors would rather bribe off the OP and not reply in a hope to bury the thread, but I would rather discuss it, and see what I can learn about what we might have done wrong, or what we might do differently next time. I hope you guys can at least respect that