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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello, I’m new. Sadly, first day out, I rolled my new X3. Yes, I’m an idiot feel free to make fun of me. My passage rear wheel clipped and tree truck and spun and flipped me. Question is, can breaks in the frame be fixed or do I have a new 35k paper weight.
271982
 

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2020 XDS RR, 2019 Sport 1000R
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Kind of looks like a bad weld to me from the pic. Probobly should not have broke like that.

What does the rest of the vehicle look like? How fast were you going? Nothing bent or broke in the rear wheel area where you hit the tree?

I would give that to a skilled fabricator that knows chassis and get that re welded. Or at least an experienced welder.

At worst...entire frames are not actually that expensive.
 

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Short answer is yes that can be fixed by a good fabricator.

The sway bar mounts take so abuse and do get cracks, which can contribute but considering your first day out it was likely not cracked.

Typically you sleeve the interior of the tube and then weld it back with rosette welds holding the tube in.

The sway bar complicates a little but very doable by an experienced fabricator.

Like was suggested a new frame can be done but ASSuming no other damage not necessary in this case.

The other thing to consider is do you have more damage elsewhere, like a bent frame etc.

Tim
 

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Oh and also, the weld did not break the tube next to the weld did so the bad weld theory, in my opinion is not valid.

To try and say something should not break is a strawman argument as you have no data to use to determine the loads the tube was put through and anything more is just conjecture without any valid data to support it. Tim
 

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Welcome from Tucson AZ. Agree with Tim. If it broke there, you probably have structural damage elsewhere. You'll need to weigh the difference in prices between repair and replace. Good luck.
 

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Oh and also, the weld did not break the tube next to the weld did so the bad weld theory, in my opinion is not valid.

To try and say something should not break is a strawman argument as you have no data to use to determine the loads the tube was put through and anything more is just conjecture without any valid data to support it. Tim
Does it really matter? He smashed it into a tree and rolled it lol. Shit broke. Wasn't really trying to do a full forensic metallurgical investigation here lol.
 

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If and when the OP responds with more details of the crash and state of the car we will have a better idea.

Seems like pretty excessive damage to me if apparently that's his biggest problem. A arms and stuff should bend before the frame literally busts in 2.
 

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OK, as an experienced fabricator, long-time professional welder, and with an engineering background -- I'll weigh-in on your chassis and what might be done to fix it. Just my opinion, no guarantee it is correct. You can't really make a good assessment from a photo on a forum, but this may give you some ideas to discuss with a local weld shop.

First, the bad weld theory. Possible, but looking at the design of this section, the more likely contributing factor is a stress riser creating a weak point where the tubing failed when an extreme force was applied. Photos are not always as clear as looking at the fracture up close and with a magnifying glass, but it does appear there may be some discoloration that might be oxidation on the fractured area. This would indicate a pre-existing failure, a crack. Likely from high-cycle fatigue.

Repair or replace? That's an expensive question. The rule of thumb is if the fracture is in the weld, grind it out completely and re-weld it. If the fracture is in the tubing, a large enough section of the tubing needs to be replaced to get past the fatigued metal or the repair will fail again. Inserting a doubling tube and welding it back together is not practical here as the brake is adjacent to the sway bar mount.

If this was mine and after a complete inspection for other damage, I decided to repair rather than replace the chassis, I'd cut out a section of the tubing on both sides of the brake and weld in a new section with clam shell doublers. That would require fabricating a new section with the sway bar mount. The tricky part is picking up key dimensions so you can align the chassis during the repair. This is why every chassis I fab I include key pick-up points to facilitate crash damage assessment and chassis repair.

Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Kind of looks like a bad weld to me from the pic. Probobly should not have broke like that.

What does the rest of the vehicle look like? How fast were you going? Nothing bent or broke in the rear wheel area where you hit the tree?

I would give that to a skilled fabricator that knows chassis and get that re welded. Or at least an experienced welder.

At worst...entire frames are not actually that expensive.
Kind of looks like a bad weld to me from the pic. Probobly should not have broke like that.

What does the rest of the vehicle look like? How fast were you going? Nothing bent or broke in the rear wheel area where you hit the tree?

I would give that to a skilled fabricator that knows chassis and get that re welded. Or at least an experienced welder.

At worst...entire frames are not actually that expensive.
So there are a number areas of cracked paint on welds in front. I just skimmed the side of the tree but it spun me and I think the vehicle cartwheeled on the tires before falling in its side. Had to know the final speed, I was doing about 15-20 mph and had to go around a down tree. When I did I got to close to the edge of a canal and panicked and floored it. I was about 5 feet from the tree when I floored it and then I just remembered a thump and me being flung around. I have also been told it’s best to replace the frame. This stinks but I learned a lesson.
 

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OK, as an experienced fabricator, long-time professional welder, and with an engineering background -- I'll weigh-in on your chassis and what might be done to fix it.

First, the bad weld theory. Possible, but looking at the design of this section, the more likely contributing factor is a stress riser creating a weak point where the tubing failed when an extreme force was applied. Photos are not always as clear as looking at the fracture up close and with a magnifying glass, but it does appear there may be some discoloration that might be oxidation on the fractured area. This would indicate a pre-existing failure, a crack. Likely high-cycle fatigue. The chassis design is full of these potential areas and the alloy the chassis is made from, while very strong, is not very ductile so flexing in a joint that has stress risers will eventually lead to cracks and finally failure.

Repair or replace? That's an expensive question. The rule of thumb is if the fracture is in the weld, grind it out completely and re-weld it. If the fracture is in the tubing, a large enough section of the tubing needs to be replaced to get past the fatigued metal or the repair will fail again. Inserting a doubling tube and welding it back together is not practical here as the brake is adjacent to the sway bar mount.

If this was mine and after a complete inspection for other damage, I decided to repair rather than replace the chassis, I'd cut out a section of the tubing on both sides of the brake and weld in a new section with clam shell doublers. That would require fabricating a new section with the sway bar mount. The tricky part is picking up key dimensions so you can align the chassis during the repair. This is why every chassis I fab I include key pick-up points to facilitate crash damage assessment and chassis repair.

Good luck.
Only thing is, he said it was his first time out. If that means it was brand new off the showroom floor..so high cycle fatigue wouldn't fit. But maybe it was a used car.

Enough guessing without more info I guess lol.

Hopefully they come back with answers out of curiosity.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Short answer is yes that can be fixed by a good fabricator.

The sway bar mounts take so abuse and do get cracks, which can contribute but considering your first day out it was likely not cracked.

Typically you sleeve the interior of the tube and then weld it back with rosette welds holding the tube in.

The sway bar complicates a little but very doable by an experienced fabricator.

Like was suggested a new frame can be done but ASSuming no other damage not necessary in this case.

The other thing to consider is do you have more damage elsewhere, like a bent frame etc.

Tim
Here are more pictures.
271988
271987
271989
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Only thing is, he said it was his first time out. If that means it was brand new off the showroom floor..so high cycle fatigue wouldn't fit. But maybe it was a used car.

Enough guessing without more info I guess lol.

Hopefully they come back with answers out of curiosity.
Sorry, it was used. Had 800 miles on it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
If and when the OP responds with more details of the crash and state of the car we will have a better idea.

Seems like pretty excessive damage to me if apparently that's his biggest problem. A arms and stuff should bend before the frame literally busts in 2.
Oddly they don’t look bend but I’m clearly no expert.
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