[ALBANATE]

Well I am seeing a lot of back and forth on clutches and it just so happens that we were recently able to see the dyno results of installing a QSC clutch kit. LOORRS Racer Wayne Matlock recently got a clutch from the guys at QSC and dropped it off for us to see how she works...

In a nut shell.... Great!

If you look at the attached dyno chart you can see that the QC setup may have only gained a few HP peak, but check out the power it put down in the transition! There are spots on the graph where the QSC clearly puts an additional 10 hp to the wheels. Also you can visually see the increase in MPH that was achieved. Remember that I do not even have an account with QSC, nor ever sold his products before...

Nate
Alba Racing

 

[Glamisfan]

Sweet!

 

[Benzo]

What's the 63hp run ?

 

[ALBANATE]

What's the 63hp run ?

Neither were 63hp. I added a cursor to the screen to show the difference in power from stock to the QSC at 2 different MPH.

Top run is comparing power at 29.2mph on the x-axis.
Bottom run is comparing power at 63.6mph on the x-axis.

Nate
Alba Racing

 

[theicon2u]

How did you have the clutch set up??

 

[BayouBogger]

I knew this thing wasnt getting all the power to the rear wheels. For the few of you in the Muzzy exhaust thread, this is the reason I said if ur dynoing with a stock clutch then ur results are flawed and invalid. And Mrrpm I guess u do see a hp to rear wheels difference on the dyno with an adequate clutch vs stock.

 

[jason442]

Good to know....thanks nate.

 

[C.Moore]

so was this a stock primary/stock secondary vs a qsc primary/stock secondary or a qsc/stm setup

 

[KRIS]

Great information. Thanks for the testing Nate!

 

[BayouBogger]

so was this a stock primary/stock secondary vs a qsc primary/stock secondary or a qsc/stm setup

I agree. Was this with the stm secondary ?

 

[WVRidgeRider]

Yea we need details...

 

[C.Moore]

WVRR, I may be up so you can help me tune a qsc lol

 

[Benzo]

Neither were 63hp. I added a cursor to the screen to show the difference in power from stock to the QSC at 2 different MPH.

Top run is comparing power at 29.2mph on the x-axis.
Bottom run is comparing power at 63.6mph on the x-axis.

Nate
Alba Racing

ahh ok , thx

 

[TreavisPoynter]

Subscribed

 

[mrrpm]

And Mrrpm I guess u do see a hp to rear wheels difference on the dyno with an adequate clutch vs stock.

Actually no, if you'll notice the obvious dip right in the middle of the runs, that is the computer shutting the throttle, because the engine rpms are too high. What's happening is the weights are too light, letting the motor rev, causing slight overrev, then when the clutch catches up, the dyno shows more power, same thing as revving the motor up, & dropping the clutch, on a manual.

If this clutch has more weight added, close to the pin, to control overrev, it will show more power down low, since it's geared lower than stock, on takeoff, which will feel like more power to the driver, but won't dyno as more power, since the overrev will be fixed. The way it's clutched now, it'll drive like ass, since it'll be in the rev limiter all the time, with the throttle shut.

 

[WVRidgeRider]

WVRR, I may be up so you can help me tune a qsc lol

Those are no fun to tune- Nothing like mine 4 sure... Much more time involved

 

[Coker6303]

Actually no, if you'll notice the obvious dip right in the middle of the runs, that is the computer shutting the throttle, because the engine rpms are too high. What's happening is the weights are too light, letting the motor rev, causing slight overrev, then when the clutch catches up, the dyno shows more power, same thing as revving the motor up, & dropping the clutch, on a manual.

If this clutch has more weight added, close to the pin, to control overrev, it will show more power down low, since it's geared lower than stock, on takeoff, which will feel like more power to the driver, but won't dyno as more power, since the overrev will be fixed. The way it's clutched now, it'll drive like ass, since it'll be in the rev limiter all the time, with the throttle shut.

Funny, Trey and I were just discussing this before lunch. Not saying the QSC is bad, just needed to be dialed in better looking at the dyno sheet. Nothing a little time tuning won't fix! After all, it's difficult to send a clutch perfect right out of the box for every application. Some user input is often needed.

 

[Coker6303]

would be nice to see rpm overlay on the graph

 

[mrrpm]

Funny, Trey and I were just discussing this before lunch. Not saying the QSC is bad, just needed to be dialed in better looking at the dyno sheet. Nothing a little time tuning won't fix! After all, it's difficult to send a clutch perfect right out of the box for every application. Some user input is often needed.

Yes, the QSC/Polaris is a great setup, the only problem I have with it is the fact that it's a cast clutch, & cast clutches can't take rpm very well, like over 9000.
They can be tuned to not overrev really easy, just like the STM, and have a low starting ratio. It is a three weight clutch, so whatever tuning you do, requires that you take off all three weights, where on a STM Rage 8, you can do two at a time, for a perfect, quick setup.

 

[ALBANATE]

A few things I would like to add...

1. Please remember that a dyno is not used for tuning a cvt clutch. The dyno is used to find the proper operating rpm which is then matched in tuning on the road/track. If a vehicles cvt was setup according to the dyno results directly 99.9% of the time it would have to much weight in real life.

2. Belt pinch can play an effect on hp to the wheels as well. If a car does not have enough pinch from the factory then slippage, hp loss, and belt wear can occur.

3. I have yet to see a clutch failure with a cast Team clutch with RPM's in excess of 9000 on a regular basis. I think the bigger concern is the amount of weight that you are spinning on it. A cast clutch will be susceptible to failure when the weight exceeds its strength.

4. Billet clutches weigh more than cast clutches...more weight is not always a good thing. Think about a flywheel and whether an RPM based car prefers a lighter flywheel or a heavier flywheel. Do you want to add weight to your rotating assembly or lower it? I prefer to keep them as light as possible...

5. Stiffer springs that create additional pinch also require additional weight... see above...

6. No two vehicles are the same and for that reason no clutch kit can be spot on out of the box for every car. When it comes to CVT clutching if you do not plan to spend the time and effort to get your individual setup dialed in the full gains will never be seen.

I just had an opportunity to run a Mav with a STM setup as well. And as you can see from the graph there is a lot of adjustment to be made...

Please also remember that we at Alba have not made any adjustments to these clutches here at the shop. They were simply strap down and quantify a difference...

Nate
Alba Racing