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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Anybody else run 32" sand tires on their 2021 RR and have issues in with top speed in the sand. This thing rocks everywhere with the stock bighorns on it. From trails to mud to snow coated roads and goes anywhere in the sand with the stock tires on it. Bought some 32" ss360s and they do good at a lot of things in the sand but have seemed to lose the top end speed. Which we expected some loss and would fix with clutching.
It used to hit 87-89 on the beach/wet sand. Now it has a hard time getting over 65-68.
We bought the KWI AO kit with helix and installed it as the spec sheet says. And no real change.
It just seems strange that with 32" tires it can't get to the speed limiter. And yes we have checked the speed with GPS as well with stock tires and sand tires. Have not checked the bighorns for a while actually.
Any thoughts?
 

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Something is not right. Are you foot to the floor? Is your intake clear and not starving for air? Are you in high gear?

Is your secondary working smooth with all rollers in perfect shape with smooth ramp?

What belt are you using? Have you tried a new OEM belt?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Yes foot to the floor. Brand new air filter. High gear, in sport mode.
I assume the secondary is running smooth. All rollers look fine. Put a brand new dr cut helix in. Was running the same way with a stock helix that also looked fine.
Using evo wbb belt. Brand new one today as well. Not stock belt
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Something is not right. Are you foot to the floor? Is your intake clear and not starving for air? Are you in high gear?

Is your secondary working smooth with all rollers in perfect shape with smooth ramp?

What belt are you using? Have you tried a new OEM belt?
Do you think an OEM belt would be better?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
OEM belts are very good belts. I personally use the Evo Extreme belt with 225 HP tune and works amazing. Belt slip can be an issue with any belt if that is the issue.
Is there issues with random clutches working better with different belts?
I can definitely give it a shot, but it seems weird. My buddy has a 2020 rc rr and we were pretty much dead even getting on it when I had the bighorns. We would also reach the same top speed in the same conditions. He also runs an evo wbb belt.
But now that I think of it, I don't believe I have not been over 70 since I started running the evo belts.
Shouldn't the adjustable kwi clutch kit help. Even when we put stiffer springs and lighter weights in it, it would hit 8100 and stay there all the way to 65 mph and then not really go anywhere after that.
Before the clutch kit it would hit 7900 and stay there until about 65 and then begin to climb with speed
 

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Bigger tires register as lower speeds. The circumference of a 32” in tire is about ~10% bigger than the stock big horns, hence a ~10 ish % loss in top speed.

The same thing happens with a smaller tire. You actually increase the mileage of a vehicle with a smaller circumference tire.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Bigger tires register as lower speeds. The circumference of a 32” in tire is about ~10% bigger than the stock big horns, hence a ~10 ish % loss in top speed.

The same thing happens with a smaller tire. You actually increase the mileage of a vehicle with a smaller circumference tire.
I totally get that. So that is why we ran a gps as well to try and rule that out. It was pretty much right on plus or minus 3-5mph.
A drop from 87 to 65 would be closer to 25% loss in top speed wouldn't it?
 

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you said you did helix? You possibly have it clocked wrong.Would pull it apart and double check it as this could def cause an rpm problem which obviously can affect your speed
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
you said you did helix? You possibly have it clocked wrong.Would pull it apart and double check it as this could def cause an rpm problem which obviously can affect your speed
We had the primary clutch and secondary clutch apart several times today. We tried both primary springs with the correct amount of magnets for each of them (according to the chart) as well as trying the secondary clocked to both recommended positions. We went clockwise with it and the rpms seemed to be right where they should have been. Rolling start, stand on skinny pedal, rpm's just to 8100 and stay there to 65mph.
It also was doing this with stock clutching. That is why we even bought a clutch kit. It is like it just doesn't have the last gear or something. But it still accelerates great.
Almost starting to think it may be something with the ecu or possibly even boost or something idk at this point.
 

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Take a black marker and put a mark on your primary clutch from the center of the hub outward radially to the edge somewhere so that you can make a run and check shift ratio that way. You'll be able to see how much of the primary clutch sheave the belt is using because where the belt has ridden it will erase the black marker.

If you really want to get lost in the details it is explained at the link below. All credit to Joey at iBackshift. One solid dude.


Ike
 

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With the boost leak tester, boost leaks are pretty easy to test for. Have you had any of the intake taken apart?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Take a black marker and put a mark on your primary clutch from the center of the hub outward radially to the edge somewhere so that you can make a run and check shift ratio that way. You'll be able to see how much of the primary clutch sheave the belt is using because where the belt has ridden it will erase the black marker.

If you really want to get lost in the details it is explained at the link below. All credit to Joey at iBackshift. One solid dude.


Ike
Thanks I was wondering if there was a trick like this. That way I know if either clutch is open or closed all the way
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
With the boost leak tester, boost leaks are pretty easy to test for. Have you had any of the intake taken apart?
No we have not taken any of that apart. But just wondering what could cause it to not hit the same top speed, but still seem just as fast down low.
Was gonna shoot you a text on Monday just didn't want to bother you on the weekend. We started with the standard AO weights with blue spring and tried both positions on the secondary. Then went with the blue orange spring and it performed pretty much luck stock again
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Ok so threw the bighorns back on and the top speed is back up to 80 mph. Also threw a pair of 32" libertys from an RC on and it would hit 72 in the same stretch. The ss360 HPs hit 65 in the same stretch. All checked with a gps as well. Did the sharpie on the primary to see if it was fully opening.(only while bighorns were on,will check the others with sharpie next time)
Was going to try and dial in the clutches with the libertys on and see if that would work for the ss360s. But what kept blowing my mind is that the speedometer was within 1mph of gps with all sets of tires. Just not sure how that can even be possible. The bighorns are 30" but only measure like 28" the liberty measures 30.5" and the ss360 measures 32".
How can it adjust for the tires sizing without having it input??

Also the only thing that is really in the instructions of the KWI clutch kit is to check the rpm at 55-60mph and if it is at less than 8000rpm then remove weight. With all tires it was right at 8000. And then falls to 7800-7900 as it keeps accelerating. I'm assuming the only way to adjust the top end speed would be the clocking on the rear helix? It seems every clutch thread says something different on which way to adjust the clocking on the helix.

Any input on any of these things would be much appreciated. Thanks guys
 

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Ok so threw the bighorns back on and the top speed is back up to 80 mph. Also threw a pair of 32" libertys from an RC on and it would hit 72 in the same stretch. The ss360 HPs hit 65 in the same stretch. All checked with a gps as well. Did the sharpie on the primary to see if it was fully opening.(only while bighorns were on,will check the others with sharpie next time)
Was going to try and dial in the clutches with the libertys on and see if that would work for the ss360s. But what kept blowing my mind is that the speedometer was within 1mph of gps with all sets of tires. Just not sure how that can even be possible. The bighorns are 30" but only measure like 28" the liberty measures 30.5" and the ss360 measures 32".
How can it adjust for the tires sizing without having it input??

Also the only thing that is really in the instructions of the KWI clutch kit is to check the rpm at 55-60mph and if it is at less than 8000rpm then remove weight. With all tires it was right at 8000. And then falls to 7800-7900 as it keeps accelerating. I'm assuming the only way to adjust the top end speed would be the clocking on the rear helix? It seems every clutch thread says something different on which way to adjust the clocking on the helix.

Any input on any of these things would be much appreciated. Thanks guys
The only way that is possible is all the tires you state is the ROLL OUT are all the same no mater what the MFG says the size are. Assuming the data you are collecting is done accurately.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
The only way that is possible is all the tires you state is the ROLL OUT are all the same no mater what the MFG says the size are. Assuming the data you are collecting is done accurately.
266786

I really doubt these have the same roll out. They have a 4.5" height difference when installed but I can check. Should I have the tires at the psi that I run them at or should I air them up to try and round them out a bit. I doubt the bighorns turn into skinny tall saw blades when they spin fast but maybe.
Any suggestions on how to collect more accurate data? Both apps I have tried on the phone seem to be accurate with my car speedometer on the highway as well.
I could mount the phone next to the speedometer and hook up the GoPro to run the different sets of tires again 🤷
I don't even really care about going too fast on the dunes just trying to learn more about the clutching.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
.............................hmm

Now that makes me curious as I've yet to mount up my 32" SS360s
Belt temps run really hot with the rear tires running the right direction. About 20-30° hotter than if they are ran in reverse. Ran in reverse then seem to have the same sidhill performance, acceleration and top speed. Thought we could fix some of this with clutching but is still up in the air. Might have to run all the tires on my buddy's 2020 RC RR and see what happens.
 
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