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Howdy All,

Pin weight or rather the lack of it can cause REAL problems. One thing you can do whcih will help is to travel with a full fresh water tank even if you don't need the water. Water weighs around 8 pounds per gallon, most toy haulers have at least a 50 gallon fresh water tank others such as mine have up to 165 gallons of fresh water. So even a smaller fresh water tank of 50 gallons will add more then 8x50=400 pounds ahead of your trailer axles which in turn adds to your pin weight. If you don't have enough pin weight you WILL have problems with sway, over all handling and braking.


Dave
 

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Howdy All,

Pin weight or rather the lack of it can cause REAL problems. One thing you can do whcih will help is to travel with a full fresh water tank even if you don't need the water. Water weighs around 8 pounds per gallon, most toy haulers have at least a 50 gallon fresh water tank others such as mine have up to 165 gallons of fresh water. So even a smaller fresh water tank of 50 gallons will add more then 8x50=400 pounds ahead of your trailer axles which in turn adds to your pin weight. If you don't have enough pin weight you WILL have problems with sway, over all handling and braking.


Dave

I'm sure adding 400 to 800#s of water with a truck like you drive would mean nothing however most of us have a simple 3/4 or 1 Ton pickup truck and carrying that much additional weight is not desirable. Even when I camp without a water hookup, I fill the fresh water tank as close to the destination and empty the grey and black tanks when I leave. Just sayin.
 

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I'm sure adding 400 to 800#s of water with a truck like you drive would mean nothing however most of us have a simple 3/4 or 1 Ton pickup truck and carrying that much additional weight is not desirable. Even when I camp without a water hookup, I fill the fresh water tank as close to the destination and empty the grey and black tanks when I leave. Just sayin.
Howdy Odyknuck,

I understand what your saying, I used to tow with a pumped up one ton before I wised up. That said I have been driving for 60 years covered well over a million and a half miles and then some, during that time I have seen many wrecks and wrecks waiting to happen caused by people who didn't know how to drive or who because they lacked the knowledge drove dangerously.

Most folks don't know that a "Trailer Tire" such as comes as stock equipment on their trailers are only speed rated at 62mph, yet everyday you can see these folks going down the Hwy at 70-80mph their trailer dancing behind them. I know I sound like the grumpy ole **** howlerin get off my lawn but these people are not only endangering themselves but everyone else on the road. If adding a few pounds of water to the trailer even if it costs you some speed up the grade or a few cents more in fuel is time and money well spent if it will save your life and those around you.

Dave
 

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No you do not "sound like the grumpy ole **** howlerin get off my lawn" as I totally agree with you. After my first trip I replaced the "E" rated China bombs with "F" rated Carlise tires. The new tires made it tow better although the fist trip netted an balloon tire that got big enough in diameter that it rubbed the adjacent tire and put a grove in both, go figure lol. So even brand new name brands have the issues. These are ST tires rated at 75 MPH and I usually drive between 65 and 70 or slower depending on road conditions. To me Rain warrants 55 to 60 MPH hauling a trailer.
 

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No you do not "sound like the grumpy ole **** howlerin get off my lawn" as I totally agree with you. After my first trip I replaced the "E" rated China bombs with "F" rated Carlise tires. The new tires made it tow better although the fist trip netted an balloon tire that got big enough in diameter that it rubbed the adjacent tire and put a grove in both, go figure lol. So even brand new name brands have the issues. These are ST tires rated at 75 MPH and I usually drive between 65 and 70 or slower depending on road conditions. To me Rain warrants 55 to 60 MPH hauling a trailer.
Howdy Odyknuck,

Good on you for replacing the tires. GOOD tires and keeping them properly inflated are about the best things a person can do to prevent bad stuff from happening. I use commercial grade tires on my trailer, yeah they cost some money but they last a long time, I usually put on around15,18K miles a year so tires are one thing I don't want to worry about.

Towing a trailer is a skill set all its own and is something that to do well takes some miles to acquire no sense in making the task harder by running bad tires, low on air, at speed in bad weather or bad road conditions. I know its hard to do especially when your young but a few minuets taken to drag that trailer safely will pay for itself with MANY hours, days, years of FUN when you arrive at your destination rather then a hospital bed or the morgue.

Dave
 

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I'm looking into a Cherokee 255rr 5th wheel. it's total length is just over 31'. It doesn't have the separate garage you are looking for, BUT there is enough room (length wise) to park your x3 in there, and still get to the fridge and bathroom without having to roll it out the back. It's dry weight is around 6800lbs as well. We upgraded to a 2012 2500 Cummins to pull this camper. Just going to wait until the spring to get one. Hope the factories aren't feeling the rush like they are now and kicking out crap
 

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Howdy Odyknuck,

Good on you for replacing the tires. GOOD tires and keeping them properly inflated are about the best things a person can do to prevent bad stuff from happening. I use commercial grade tires on my trailer, yeah they cost some money but they last a long time, I usually put on around15,18K miles a year so tires are one thing I don't want to worry about.

Towing a trailer is a skill set all its own and is something that to do well takes some miles to acquire no sense in making the task harder by running bad tires, low on air, at speed in bad weather or bad road conditions. I know its hard to do especially when your young but a few minuets taken to drag that trailer safely will pay for itself with MANY hours, days, years of FUN when you arrive at your destination rather then a hospital bed or the morgue.

Dave
Fortunately I am 65 and have many years of trailer towing. This is however my 1st 5th wheel. I still haul my X3 in my 28' Enclosed racecar trailer to my local riding spot about every other weekend.
 

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Going full time Motor Home with enclosed trailer
Hell yea!!! I have a super c coach and enclosed trailer and it is the best of all worlds, unfortunately I’m still working. You figure a new 5th wheel is $75k + and 1-ton larriot is $70k +, for same money you can have a coach and enclosed trailer.

I know the OP and he’s still a weekend warrior and agree maybe a 35’ -37’, 2 axle hauler with garage would be good. I worry a 12” garage is to small, my last fuzion had a 12’ garage that measured 11’10 so I would dry fit your car prior to any purchase
 

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Discussion Starter #31
Yeah Matt the 12' seems small to me. Honestly my biggest concern is bumping the wall when I pull in and second would be strapping down. Right now the Octane works great for us but tired of pulling the pig in the wind, if not windy you hardly know it's there. Last trip back from the dunes and earlier this summer going down the Gorge to Florence really got me to thinking a 5th wheel is the way to go. The challenge is finding one with a big enough garage, floor plan we like, and not doing something stupid financially. Right now used are going for a premium so just passively looking, don't want to go the new route again since depreciation kicks you straight in the jewels.

Sounds like the group confirmed my suspicions about a 12' garage not fitting the bill for what I'm looking for.
 

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a 5'er will be a lot more smooth when towing, but it's still a sale behind you in the wind. it's just attached closer to you, and the weight is more centered (compared to a bumper pull) on the truck.

There seems to be a wealth of knowledge on here about towing weights and restrictions. Lots of experienced fellers all willing to lend a hand! Awesome to see.

Used might be a way to go at the moment, depending on when the new unit was produced. If it was before covid, i'd buy it, but if it's been produced the last couple months, i would walk away. I see a lot of potential issues coming from the factories that are just hammering out RV's to keep up with demand, and when that happens, quality mistakes happen. I'm in the auto industry, you should see the amount of complaints that are piling up due to our people working 6-7 days a week right now
 

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I'm looking into a Cherokee 255rr 5th wheel. it's total length is just over 31'. It doesn't have the separate garage you are looking for, BUT there is enough room (length wise) to park your x3 in there, and still get to the fridge and bathroom without having to roll it out the back. It's dry weight is around 6800lbs as well. We upgraded to a 2012 2500 Cummins to pull this camper. Just going to wait until the spring to get one. Hope the factories aren't feeling the rush like they are now and kicking out crap
i looked at that one too, but the light pin wight concerns me. forest river website says 1400#, and then load 2000# on the ass end? i haven't actually seen one yet. i am guessing you could back the car in and get the majority of the weight over the axles. if odyknuck's wolf pack had probably a 2000# pin weight and would loose 600# putting the x3 in, then not sure i would want to go lighter.

i really like the idea of not having a 40ft or bigger trailer as we do more east coast style riding. some of those mountain roads and camping areas get tight. plus we would use ours for "camping" not just the toy hauling. i have seen where some state / national parks have length restrictions too. ideally i should get a short 5th wheel for glamping and just take a 2nd vehicle to tow the enclosed trailer and sxs.
 

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i looked at that one too, but the light pin wight concerns me. forest river website says 1400#, and then load 2000# on the ass end? i haven't actually seen one yet. i am guessing you could back the car in and get the majority of the weight over the axles. if odyknuck's wolf pack had probably a 2000# pin weight and would loose 600# putting the x3 in, then not sure i would want to go lighter.

i really like the idea of not having a 40ft or bigger trailer as we do more east coast style riding. some of those mountain roads and camping areas get tight. plus we would use ours for "camping" not just the toy hauling. i have seen where some state / national parks have length restrictions too. ideally i should get a short 5th wheel for glamping and just take a 2nd vehicle to tow the enclosed trailer and sxs.
We have walked through one. We like it. What i like is that you can put the toy anywhere in there so the weight can be either behind the axles, over the axles, or in front of the axles. So the pin weight can fluctuate a lot more than a normal toy hauler. But something to look at and test our prior to doing some serious long hauls
 

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i looked at that one too, but the light pin wight concerns me. forest river website says 1400#, and then load 2000# on the ass end? i haven't actually seen one yet. i am guessing you could back the car in and get the majority of the weight over the axles. if odyknuck's wolf pack had probably a 2000# pin weight and would loose 600# putting the x3 in, then not sure i would want to go lighter.

i really like the idea of not having a 40ft or bigger trailer as we do more east coast style riding. some of those mountain roads and camping areas get tight. plus we would use ours for "camping" not just the toy hauling. i have seen where some state / national parks have length restrictions too. ideally i should get a short 5th wheel for glamping and just take a 2nd vehicle to tow the enclosed trailer and sxs.

Based on an actual Cat scale I currently have a 2120# pin weight with the X3 loaded in backwards. It is still only 15.5% pin weight and should be closer to 20% for optimum towing performance. What is odd Forest River recommends between15% - 20% pin weight on their 5th wheel Toy Haulers.
 

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Howdy All,
A properly built toy hauler, should be heavier on the pin, UNTIL it is loaded with a toy in the garage. If it had the proper pin weight when it didn't have a toy in the garage it would be to light on the pin when it was loaded with a toy.
Dave
 

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We load the X3 forward in our Cyclone and had a pin weight of 22.35% last September...will check it in another week for this upcoming year.
 

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Just some info on loading forward versus backwards. In mine the weight difference on the pin was only 100#s however I wanted as much pin weight I could get without adding anymore dead weight to the gross load.
 

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