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X3 Suspension Set Up, "The Suspension Guy"

This is a discussion on X3 Suspension Set Up, "The Suspension Guy" within the The Suspension Guy forums, part of the Can-am Maverick Supporting Vendors category; Originally Posted by PropDr All other factors equal, a coil spring is a length of spring wire that is being twisted. The longer the wire ...

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  1. #881
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    Quote Originally Posted by PropDr View Post
    All other factors equal, a coil spring is a length of spring wire that is being twisted. The longer the wire the softer the spring.
    If the coils have even spacing the spring rate will remain constant until fully collapsed.
    If the coils have progressive spacing, every coil that makes contact with its neighbor is removed from the length of the wire; thereby becoming 'progressively' stiffer.
    Look at the small top spring, with the car resting on the ground,the center coil is the only one with a gape, all the others are collapsed; the length of wire free from any contact is very short. This skinny wire is now the stiffest in setup.
    This is a progressive spring.
    All these springs used on these cars are progressive rate springs. But some springs can have different progressive rates depending on how the coils are wound and spacing. some springs can have a portion of the spring that is wound tighter ( coils closer together ) as well as coils further apart all in the same spring. This set up is trying to biuld in a dual rate type set up out of a single spring as part of the spring will reach block hight ( bottom out on itself) before the other portion of the spring.

    As far as lenght goes, the longer the spring, means that spring can achieve higher spring rates when it is fully compressed to block height.

    Example, for an Eibach quality spring.
    if we have a 10 inch long 3.0, 400 rate spring. This spring can be compressed to 4 inches, to get it to 4 inches takes 2400 lbs. that means you have 6 inches of progressive rate from 0 to 2400 lbs

    that same 400 rate spring in a 14 inch length can be compressed down to 5 1/2 inches. To reach this takes 3300 lbs end rate over 8 1/2 inches. This 400lbs progressive rate is the same but reaches a higher end rate with a longer spring.

    If we add another spring, and crossover rings, we get a dual rate system that will further add all kinds of spring rate Progressiveness with room to tweek it it to taste.
    The dual rate set up lets us have an area of shock movement where the we can start with a lower spring rate that progresses slower. Then give us a later area of movement that the spring rate progresses faster.

    The softer as it gets longer doesn’t really apply to these types of springs used on these cars.
    Sorry if there is some confusion on how these springs work.
    Last edited by Pound Sand; 03-13-2018 at 02:36 PM.
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  2. #882
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pound Sand View Post
    Thats why I said above, most don’t need new springs. The problem with the stock springs is the cheaper material used.
    and!!! With the 2 seater, take those rear shocks off and get rid of the tiny top “helper” spring. That is one spring that’s contributing to the sagging. But the other two springs are still going to sag over time and milage.
    But if you like your car sitting super low as it does in stock configuration, than you must leave the top rear spring intact. If you eliminate the top spring, then you will not Be able to run a low ride height do to the springs becoming loose at full suspension extension. That is why the top spring was added later to allow the rear ride height to be set so low.
    If your ride hieght is set up to get the max out of your Suspension travel? Then get rid of the top small tender spring and top slider.
    I had some time this weekend to install my new springs, pain in the ass. My top helper spring was fully compressed on the rears with the amount of preload i had in them already. Haven't had a chance to go out and ride but after setting up to their measurements for preload and crossover my machine is sitting a lot higher but I'm sure will settle some after the first run through some decent bumps. Overall I'm happy with them but the ride will tell me all on Easter.

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  3. #883
    Junior Member o2tobass's Avatar
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    Does anyone have a how to video or step by step directions on how to set up the suspension or more aggressive higher speed settings? I like to haul ass and jump so id like to set it up without the nose dive and bottoming out

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  5. #884
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    Quote Originally Posted by o2tobass View Post
    Does anyone have a how to video or step by step directions on how to set up the suspension or more aggressive higher speed settings? I like to haul ass and jump so id like to set it up without the nose dive and bottoming out
    Pm poundsand

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    Little for more food for all you info hounds

    comparison stuff as far as Suspension goes for the x3 and new Polaris rzr S Dynamix
    should you sell your x3 for a new rzr because its light years better?? No, not really.
    But the long travel rzr is a very good improvement for that car.

    The shocks on the Rzr S ( for the ones that don’t know) are a RC2 class of shock. So its a real 2.5 front and rear. And yes, these are aluminum bodies with a steel sleeve so there is no inside wear issues and weight has been reduced compared to the steel shock body versions. And yes, these new shocks will run cooler with less fading characteristics.

    And, Fox owns the shocks only!! Polaris owns and designed that electronic compression adjuster and the Dynamix computer!

    The standard travel XPT has the same Fox bipass type shocks as our X3 long travel cars.
    As we know, the Xpt and x3 version shocks are boat anchors as far as weight is concerned! But on the 2018 popo, Fox redesigned the XPT boat anchor bipass steel shocks to aluminum outside and including the inside bipass tube! Good move! I think its safe to say that future X3 bipass foxes may also get a new weight trimmed down version ??? We shall see?

    The new aluminum rc2 type shocks on the rzr S are light weight as compared to the past Fox shock steel models. Part of the popularity of the Walker evans velocity aluminum shocks for the X3 long travel is the 70 lbs it takes off the car as compared to the stock Fox set up. Also, within the heat shedding aluminum comes less fading issues as compared to the steel bipass Foxes.

    Did anyone notice how many walker evans velocity shocks were on the top 12 UTV cars at KOH? Even the top 20?
    Oh, and how many of the those cars were XP !

    I like both xp and x3! They are both good cars, and i think we all agree, Polaris got stagnant and didn’t really improve the car enough in places it should have?! So now they are playing catch up to the X3 in design, performance and reliability.
    The long travel RZR is a big deal in the right direction for the XP car. A few of us have already known the good in the long travel since we tune these cars with aftermarket long travel and shock set ups. But these cars are only out and around in very small numbers since the expense is so high.

    Still, as suspension goes, the base shock set up is what’s is all about on these new cars, Period! A good shock set up for this car will really help it shine. The Dynamix system sets a base static position, then just adds a little more firm in A few situations. It is not making huge adjustments! So it IS a POSITIVE for the car. It doesn’t need to do a lot, just a little.

    And NO, there donsnt need to be a Dynamix rebound adjustment. Not ever! If the car is set balanced, with the rebound valving done right to start, then there is no reason to mess with it later. Some off us just know how to valve the mains better than others.

    The X3 is still a great car! Polaris is playing a little catch up to try and have a car in the same category. The xp S long travel should help put them there. It’s not way better, or even better than the x3 long travel. But its same category comparable as far as Suspension and horsepower goes.

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    Hey Ed,
    I have tried to get ahold of you forever. You helped me with my X3 XRS suspension and it is still nose diving. To tell you the truth the last time we spoke I wrote down your instructions on how to fix this on a sticky note and lost it. Can you please help me with this problem. Thanks again.
    Jacob

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlnash61 View Post
    Hey Ed,
    I have tried to get ahold of you forever. You helped me with my X3 XRS suspension and it is still nose diving. To tell you the truth the last time we spoke I wrote down your instructions on how to fix this on a sticky note and lost it. Can you please help me with this problem. Thanks again.
    Jacob
    text me today with your name
    dang that lost sticky note!!!?? Lol.

  9. #888
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pound Sand View Post
    All these springs used on these cars are progressive rate springs. But some springs can have different progressive rates depending on how the coils are wound and spacing. some springs can have a portion of the spring that is wound tighter ( coils closer together ) as well as coils further apart all in the same spring. This set up is trying to biuld in a dual rate type set up out of a single spring as part of the spring will reach block hight ( bottom out on itself) before the other portion of the spring.

    As far as lenght goes, the longer the spring, means that spring can achieve higher spring rates when it is fully compressed to block height.

    Example, for an Eibach quality spring.
    if we have a 10 inch long 3.0, 400 rate spring. This spring can be compressed to 4 inches, to get it to 4 inches takes 2400 lbs. that means you have 6 inches of progressive rate from 0 to 2400 lbs

    that same 400 rate spring in a 14 inch length can be compressed down to 5 1/2 inches. To reach this takes 3300 lbs end rate over 8 1/2 inches. This 400lbs progressive rate is the same but reaches a higher end rate with a longer spring.

    If we add another spring, and crossover rings, we get a dual rate system that will further add all kinds of spring rate Progressiveness with room to tweek it it to taste.
    The dual rate set up lets us have an area of shock movement where the we can start with a lower spring rate that progresses slower. Then give us a later area of movement that the spring rate progresses faster.

    The softer as it gets longer doesn’t really apply to these types of springs used on these cars.
    Sorry if there is some confusion on how these springs work.
    Oh, I'm not confused, you giving us a pretty good explanation of how a linear spring works.
    But I think you should do some reading to understand the difference between linear and progressive.
    Linear vs progressive rate springs | Automotive Thinker - Discussing the finer points of automobiles

  10. #889
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pound Sand View Post
    The skinny on X3 spring kits, or individual spring purchases.



    Spring kits for the X3 are not going to make a “huge” difference.
    Yes, the spring cost is about half or more the cost of doing the full shock job. But the shock work is a WAY bigger percentage of the improvements than the spring replacement improvements.

    The biggest complaint from the stock springs is the materials quality. The stock springs loose length memory and some rate. So a higher end quality spring than STOCK is important. Replacing all 8 with quality stuff!

    But, i will let you all in on a secret!! Till an owner is ready to do the full shock deal, revalve and all new springs, the x3rS really only needs one pair of springs changed!! Yup! For most owners, just getting a pair of higher rate front bottom springs and disconnecting the front sway bar will be quite a positive change for an x3rS!! This goes along with having the entire car set up properly also.

    Back to spring kits,
    There is a small problem with going with SOME spring kits”. The spring choices are usually a bandade to “help” the “STOCK” valving. But if this is as far as an owner will go as far as Suspension? Than you will probably be good! But? This can be a problem down the road if and when an owner decides to go with a full shock revalve? The springs usually are not the optimum spring rates that will work BEST with the new shock work settings. Would anyone want to “Give Up” some performance by not having the optimal spring choices after a full shock job???

    And? To make things more difficult, It’s a bummer when a few spring Sellers’s don’t and won’t give up thier spring rates for tuning purposes.
    They feel it’s thier secret. Oh well? That’s thier choice!

    But the Spring Kits are a nice convenient way to purchase springs, colors, and other goodies that will come packaged all together. But if you have other shock plans for later?? You may want to purchase springs “individually” to get the correct rates to match up with your shock tune at a later date.

    So, If owners stay the same course of springs and tuners, then hopefully this will not be a problem. But it can cost you extra cash down the road if you mix and match and don’t know your spring rates!
    Best bet, is to decide who you will go with for a full tune and get your springs from said tuner!! That way, you can buy the correct springs to Match your shock tune later!
    What is your take on limit straps for the Fox shocks with your tune?


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  11. #890
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    Lovin the velocities. Thanks Ed Name:  Resized_20180325_125730.jpeg
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Size:  114.4 KBName:  Resized_20180325_125545.jpeg
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Size:  43.8 KB

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    GloverXRS and Hollywood X3 like this.

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